Lizze Winters: The Value of Career Design

00:00:00 Sumer Beatty: Welcome to Tomorrow Makers, where we explore how we learn, live, work, and play now and in the future. I'm Sumer Beatty. 00:00:11 Carlos Ramos: And I'm Carlos Ramos. Happy New Year, Sumer! 00:00:14 Sumer Beatty: Happy New Year! How are you? I'm great! 00:00:17 Carlos Ramos: Now, I have to press on that. How are you? 00:00:20 Sumer Beatty: Oh, okay. I know where you're going with that. You'll find out later, but I'm, I'm doing well. I'm refreshed. It's January. Can I have any other answer at this time of year? 00:00:32 Carlos Ramos: There you go. Any, new year's resolution? 00:00:35 Sumer Beatty: You know, I've made resolutions in the past and honestly, I've not been great at keeping them. And I think January 1st is just another day. So I like to have goals that last more than a year, sometimes six months. So I have lots of goals and, they're not necessarily January 1st oriented. I'll say that. 00:00:54 Carlos Ramos: All right. So instead of a new year's resolution, you have a new year's, multi year design. 00:01:01 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, goal oriented life design. That's it. 00:01:04 Carlos Ramos: Love it. 00:01:05 Sumer Beatty: Okay. This'll all make sense once you hear our conversation with Lizze. We have Lizze Winters with us today and she is from the Center for Career Design and she's going to talk with us about designing your career. So we promise it'll all make sense. We hope you get a lot out of this one. 00:01:20 Carlos Ramos: Alright, New Year's resolution design, career design, a little life design. It's all here on Tomorrow Makers. 00:01:27 Sumer Beatty: Enjoy! Alright, welcome Lizze! 00:01:33 Lizze Winters: Thank you, nice to be here. 00:01:35 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, thanks for being with us. We've got Lizze Winters. And she is the Career and Professional Programming Manager at our Center for Career Design. This is a mouthful here at Penn College. So we're so excited to have Lizze with us here today. 00:01:50 Lizze Winters: Yeah, great. Happy New Year. 00:01:51 Sumer Beatty: Happy New Year. So it seems like a fitting time to talk about career. A lot of people have this on top of mind, whether you're a student, high school student considering college, or just a professional thinking about, you know, what are my goals for the coming year? So it seems like a really a good time to talk with lizze. 00:02:09 Lizze Winters: Yeah, it's always a great time to think about your career prospects and your future and knowing that it's never too late to learn something new. 00:02:18 Sumer Beatty: That's true. It's a journey, right? 00:02:19 Lizze Winters: It sure is. 00:02:21 Sumer Beatty: Well, I think a good place to start is, just considering your title and that you work at the Center for Career Design, that just kind of, it got me thinking. You know, I love the idea of designing a career. Can you talk to us a little bit about what that means? 00:02:36 Lizze Winters: Sure, career design is actually, a concept and it's really an ongoing kind of internally creative process where you think about, what are my values? I think about my personality, my skills, my interests, and then you start asking yourself the hard questions and really dig in. What will my days look like? Do I want to work with people or is that not something that really excites me? Do I want to work with my hands? What role does money play when I'm thinking about my career life? And so I think once people dig into that process a little bit, and start answering some of those questions about themselves, then we really are able to focus on the idea of, okay, now that I've engaged in this self discovery, now I can start thinking about, well, how can I make a living out of this? And so, yes, you have to put in some work. But it can be really exciting and it can be a real chance to get to know yourself and remind yourself what my values are. 00:03:35 Sumer Beatty: Wow. That's a lot. 00:03:36 Lizze Winters: It's a lot. 00:03:37 Sumer Beatty: And it's a lot as an adult here sitting, I'm just imagining a high school student. If someone said that to me, I'd be, whoa, how introspective. I'm not ready for that. 00:03:46 Lizze Winters: I was just going to say, now imagine that you're 16. 00:03:49 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. 00:03:49 Lizze Winters: And people at every family gathering say to you, Hey, what are you going to do? What are you going to be? Where are you going to school? And that can be really overwhelming. 00:03:58 Sumer Beatty: It's intimidating. 00:03:59 Lizze Winters: Sure. And, and I still ask myself that some days too, right? 00:04:02 Sumer Beatty: Right. 00:04:03 Lizze Winters: I didn't set out to become a career counselor in higher ed. That wasn't necessarily my original intention. It takes twisty, topsy turvy routes to get there, right? 00:04:14 Sumer Beatty: Right. It seems like you're perfectly suited for this role, just listening to you speak through these, all of these different considerations and I like the proactive approach because I think If I consider back to my, my roots, I'm, you know, a lot of times it was like, you need to quote, get a job. So it's this idea that there's this job out there, and then I'm searching for something that exists. I am not designing something, designing goals for myself. So I, I like where you're coming from. 00:04:43 Lizze Winters: Yeah, and I think that when we look at today's economy and work life, it's really different than at least what my parents knew and what they guided me into. And certainly it's very different and changing rapidly for those who are currently students or young professionals. And so the jobs that exist, the careers that exist, many have designed on their own. Or, they're being implemented right now, and they've never existed in that way before. And so I think we have to take a really proactive, modern approach to, you're not just going to go out and do job A for 30 years. You're going to go out and get a base education in that field, but then you can do hundreds of things within that field that feel rewarding. 00:05:30 Sumer Beatty: Right, so it's almost get that foundation, pick something you enjoy, and then build off of it, knowing that it is a journey, and that you're not stuck in one particular career field for your whole entire life, or one job, one, you know, position. We may have some parents listening, and that overview you gave originally to us here of all of the different considerations as a parent. Is there anything you may, any advice you may have for parents as they guide their kids? 00:06:02 Lizze Winters: Sure. I think that one of the things that we really need to help our youth understand is that there are a lot of resources out there, but the first thing they need to do is explore. Ask a lot of questions. Anybody that your parents are friends with, anybody who comes to your home, or guest speakers at your school, or somebody you meet at summer camp. Ask them, what do you do for a living, and why do you like it, or how did you get involved in that? I think just knowing the value of questioning. It's very important. We live in a society where everything is fed to us very rapidly, and we almost kind of expect answers to come to us. But I think then we lose sight of how important it can be to engage others and start that conversation. So I think for parents that's a really important thing to kind of try to impart upon our youth. I think another thing is, ask the students and children questions. What could you do right now to make yourself more professional? What skills could you build if you could build any skills? And let our young people tell us what they're interested in and maybe how they could build those skills. We can also use resources like job shadowing once they get older and exploratory summer camps so that they can check out those types of interests that they didn't necessarily knew existed. So those are just some of the ways that I think when we, we can start really young and get young people excited about, wow, there are a lot of opportunities for me as I grow. How can I get there? How can I start to find out what I'm good at and what I really like? 00:07:41 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. And I think in terms of engaging with those other adults in your life that you, you know, you may know your parents, friends, your neighbors, like you said, everybody is well, I think most people I should say, are excited to tell young people what they do. And, you know, I think taking advantage of that as a great opportunity for these kids. Like, I mean, if somebody said, what do you do? Can I come to work with you? You know, can my son or daughter come to, yes, of course. Come on. You know, I think that that would just be very welcoming. So, also, what about those, those parents with those kids that, you know, maybe college is coming soon, they haven't had an opportunity to do a camp, they haven't, you know, the time is running out, maybe even, what, is there anything, I almost feel like is there a, all those items you listed. Is there some resources? Is there a book? Is there a website? Are everybody doesn't have access to a professional like you, you know, is there, is there another way that they can go about kind of collecting all of those aspects? And I think about pros and cons lists because I like to make those, you know, is there something like that, that somebody may be able to do it, be it a parent listening or, or a potential student, a college student. 00:08:53 Lizze Winters: Yeah, I think a great place to start is something called Career One Stop. Career One Stop is a website and it's sponsored by the U. S. Department of Labor. On Career One Stop, there are listings for millions of jobs, and then it gives us a little information about the outlook of that job. So is it a growing field or is it a field that is shrinking? What's the likelihood for future employment? Average salaries across your state or your country for what you could earn in that field. The level of education needed so that if you're planning a career in that field, you can start thinking about, well, where do I start? But on that website, there's also this really great interest assessment. And it's a quick 30 question, do you like this or like this? Would you prefer to do this or this? And I think that can be really a great starting point for high school students or folks who, may have just gone directly to work and not considered a whole lot what they want to do, but now they have new ideas about their career. Career One Stop is something that we often use with our college students to try to help them understand where their skills and interests align. So that they can better direct their career search and their major in college, if that's an area that they need some help with. 00:10:10 Sumer Beatty: Okay, thanks for that. We'll link that in the show notes. 00:10:13 Lizze Winters: Okay, yeah, there's another one, if, if you're willing. 00:10:16 Sumer Beatty: Sure. 00:10:17 Lizze Winters: I think that Stanford University has been really at the forefront of the idea of career design and life design. And so there is a series of free videos for the public that you can watch about what are some great ways to start digging into who am I and what do I want to do. It also talks a little bit about advancing some of those professional skills that I said maybe start working on. So things like how to network and talk to other people, which some of us aren't natural at. And then it also leads us into some videos and some other skills, quizzes, and things like that, that we can use to kind of get those values and interests in our minds so that we can start directing our search. 00:11:04 Sumer Beatty: Oh, that's really nice. So it almost sounds like those would be good for whatever age you happen to be in considering your career start or next step. 00:11:14 Lizze Winters: And they're animated so, yes, they really are for everybody. 00:11:17 Sumer Beatty: OK. 00:11:17 Lizze Winters: Yeah they're great. and then there's the traditional tool and that, the last one I'll mention is maybe the traditional personality tool that maybe many of us have had those assessments, the Meyers Briggs. so that we can find out, are you an INFP or what your letters are, but basically by knowing that about yourself, it can help you figure out, Oh, well, based on my personality type, do I think that I would be more inclined to want to work with my hands outside or would I be more inclined to want to do some, a more conventional style career where I'm working in a team of people in an office every day. So just that basic start can be very helpful. 00:11:59 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, so when you were speaking earlier, it came to mind, you know, there are the things that we consider more naturally when we're looking for a job and considering our career path, you know, like you said, what am I going to be doing? But there's also, who am I going to be working for? What types of companies? But the thing is you can't hire such, you know, types of people. So I think that's important too. What type of culture do you want to be a part of? Do you want to be a part of a team? What type of team? What type of people? Because that matters so much when you come into work every day. So I think that's something maybe a young person might not take into consideration necessarily. You know, just the do you want to be on a manufacturing floor? Do you want to be in an office. Like, there's just, there's so many opportunities. And outside, you know, do you want to be landscaping? There's so many things. And I think also, how do people even find out what jobs are there? I know we talked about creating your job, but I mean, everybody can't do that. So how do you even find out what jobs? I mean, we're at Penn College here. There are degrees that I hadn't even considered, you know, years back. So how does someone find out what jobs are out there? 00:13:07 Lizze Winters: I think one of the important things that you can do, again, aside from networking and growing those weak ties, so you can learn about opportunity. is really digging in to things that you're interested in and researching companies that are involved in that industry. So I think that's a good place to start. So if I'm a gamer, I want to start thinking about, oh, what companies are making these games? What companies make the software for these games? What companies manufacture the packaging that the games come in. If you start digging in that way, you can really start to think of, Oh, well, I could be a polymer engineer and I could help actually make the plastic container that the game is packaged in right? Not a career people think about automatically, but if you start to dig into something that you're very interested in, you'll see that there are hundreds of careers surrounding just that one product or that one event that you like to do or that one, thing that interests you. 00:14:09 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, I like that you brought up passion And we have a student here in the polymer engineering program who He wants to work for LEGO. He knew that from a young age. He is laser focused on that goal. And I think when you have that passion It just ignites something in you, and then you, you just have all this extra energy that you might not otherwise have, but a focus, and I think that's really important, because no matter what your interest is, there's so many different ways to come at it, and you know, what, you know, what's your interest, what's your passion, but what skills do you have already, and what, you know, there's just, there's so many things to take into consideration, right? 00:14:46 Lizze Winters: There really are, and you know, I think this is funny, I think some students around campus will laugh, and they'll tell you, Lizze often talks about having a side hustle, but the reason I talk about it isn't necessarily because that's income driven, but it's because it's a way for you to take what you like, what you're good at, and find ways to market it. And once you do that. Well, then you've created a career, haven't you, potentially, but also you find out what is able to be done with the thing that you like. And so maybe that side hustle isn't for you forever, but maybe you take a left turn with it and you do something totally different. But because you dug in and you learned about it and you went forward with your passion and your interests. Now you have this whole market informational background in a field that not everybody has. So I always promote the value of, and it seems silly, but really find a way to create a side hustle with what you love. 00:15:50 Carlos Ramos: That sounds like a great way to future proof your career. You know, we think about, you can pick any moment in time, and there's something that's changing. Obviously, AI is huge, right now, and it's, it's a disrupter across many industries and will filter down through all industries. So someone who takes that time to explore AI and learn about and think about how AI will impact their industry now while they're learning versus those that might be in the field that are just, they're so, bogged down in the day to day that they can't pull themselves back out and say, okay, how do I use this new thing that could be really critical to someone's initial success. 00:16:33 Lizze Winters: Absolutely. And we know that employers, industry leaders over and over, what they value most is your ability to problem solve, your ability to be a dot connector, right? Your ability to be adventurous in your learning. And so yeah, by exploring new technologies, by thinking about how could this maybe impact me even if it's not now. Even if it's in five or 10 years, then yes, what you've done is you've made yourself marketable across many industries because you've developed the basic skills that could be valuable anywhere. 00:17:12 Sumer Beatty: I think too the side hustle pulls in the opportunity to If you are in a, in a career, you have an opportunity to just like dip your foot into something a little bit different, but just still have that stability to have that primary job, but also explore those other areas. And in some, in the case of AI, there may be a degree out there for that. I'm not sure. Maybe there is. But I remember, you know, way back in time, digital marketing, there was no degree for that. It was just, when I was in the field, you just researched it. You You know, took Google classes and, and you just leveled up that way, but you know, it also gives the students a way to, to progress themselves and, you know, without a formal degree, but you know, maybe have their primary degree and just, yeah, make them, make it stand out on your resume. Yeah, and I love the problem solving that you pulled in because that's something employers are always commenting on. It, it, and it's funny because they'll list that before the skills that they've learned here at Penn College. Like, we want people who are problem solvers. So how do you bring that into your resume? 00:18:15 Lizze Winters: Right, and, and you want to highlight projects that you have or things that you work on. It's funny, in one of my classroom presentations last year, I think it was, I had a student who said, Oh, I don't really do anything special. I haven't had an internship in my field yet. I don't do this or that. I said, okay, well, what are some things that you like to do in your free time? If you had a free Saturday, what would you do? He said, Oh, well, I, I comb flea markets and I find old electronics musical equipment and I rip it apart and I customize it and make brand new DJ sets and I sell them. And last year I made An income of approximately this much . And I burst into laughter and I said that that's what you're gonna talk about in every interview from now until you're the president of the company. Because what initiative, what problem solving, what a way to take what you're interested in and make a brand new thing out of it. That's exciting. And that's really career design. He's been designing his career without really even knowing it. 00:19:20 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, that's an important piece. Like, how did he not know? You know, here we are saying, how would you not know? But there may be people out there that just need to take a step back and think, they may be the one saying, well, I don't do anything special. Yes, you do. Just think about it. You know, everyone's not doing combing, combing, flea markets for, for radios or whatever he was doing. Yeah. So I think it's that realization too. So if you're a parent or you're a student listening, whatever, you know, just take a step back and think about what are you doing? Because you likely are doing something pretty special. You just have to give it some thought. 00:19:55 Lizze Winters: That's right. And learn how to talk about it. You are the only expert on you in the whole world. But if I'm an employer, And I'm sitting across from the table from you. I don't know how wonderful you are until you're, unless you're able to talk about it. And so that's another thing that we want to make sure families, students, teachers, anybody across the board understands is, help young people learn to talk about what they are doing that's so wonderful. Are they a Division III NCAA student athlete? Well, there are a lot of leadership and teamwork skills that go along with that. But until you talk about it, nobody really knows how capable you are. If you can take virtually anything apart and put it back together and there's no leftover pieces, like if I were to do it, well, that's something, there's something to be said for that. It means, yes, you're a problem solver and you can probably figure out any electronic issue. You have to learn to talk about yourself in a way that people get really excited about what you're doing. 00:20:55 Sumer Beatty: I think a lot of us will, around here, will say, I don't like to talk about myself because that's not a natural thing, right? So how does somebody get Used to talking about a, a, a high school kid. I don't wanna tell you about myself. Lizze. What, what can you tell them? What advice, what are, what, what ways can they get experience? 00:21:13 Lizze Winters: I think one of the first things to do is write down what you wanna say. When we write things down, we're more inclined to remember them, and you can just write three or four sentences about. What you do that makes you different than other people. You know, in the past, this might have been called an elevator pitch. What a snooze, right? 00:21:33 Sumer Beatty: We still call it that sometimes. 00:21:35 Lizze Winters: But I like to think of it, honestly, as, you know, pretend you're a superhero. What's your origin story? How did you get involved in robotics? Is it because you took a class in high school and boom, you were like, this is it. I love this. Did you grow up with helping your grandfather on site because he had a small construction company? Talk about, well, not only did I learn how to use the tools and do things with my hands, but I also spent time with my pap and that made me value a small family company. So really again, I think it comes back to values. First you have to think about what is important to me and what am I good at and then write it down. Three, four, five sentences. and practice it. I always tell people practice in the mirror. Mirrors don't lie. I know I have one. And, and, and you'll know, do I seem natural? Do I use vocabulary from my field? Do I understand how this industry operates and my place within it? And so if you start practicing telling people about what you do on the side and how you got there, your passion for it, then I think it becomes, it comes a lot more naturally. 00:22:47 Sumer Beatty: I like the practicing idea and maybe even beyond the mirror. I mean, we all have relatives and friends that the first thing you see, see someone, they say, how's it going? What's new? And we're always like, oh, it's good. How are you? But maybe don't pass by that. Maybe practice with somebody who will listen and cares about you, of course, and then you can tell them later why you were doing it. But I think taking advantage of those opportunities we have to, to tell those around us what we are up to. I mean, we don't need to give them a, a three hour overview. But, you know, that, that elevator pitch, why not? Try it on people you know, right? 00:23:21 Lizze Winters: That's right. Absolutely. your teacher's safe place, right? They want to hear what you did on the weekend. When they ask you, they really want you to say something. They don't want you to say, it was fine. Right. They're asking for a reason. So yeah, use that safety net and practice on them and ask them, Hey, if I were, let's pretend I'm going to an interview. What should I say about myself? Because people around you observe things about you that you might not recognize, right? Your parents, your guardians, your older siblings, your teachers, all of those people will use words to describe you if you ask them, and that might be really helpful in the way you also then start talking about yourself. 00:24:03 Carlos Ramos: I think recording yourself would also be really valuable because then you have that chance to go back and take a look at it and not in the self defeating, oh, I was just terrible at doing this because that first recording, you're going to be terrible. That's why musicians have multi takes. That's why TED Talk speakers prepare for months, if not years, to get that 17 minutes perfectly delivered. it can take, I know when I do recording for some of our spots or I'm in my studio doing stuff, I mean, I can be 20, 30 takes on something and it's just, ugh, but you get that moment to reflect and to think and to, you know, probe with those questions that you were probing, before and just say, okay, how can I make this a little bit better? And there's no risk because what can you do with a recording? You can hit the delete button. 00:24:58 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, I think there's the recording and then there's the visual, too, right, because we're all making, we're saying a lot with our face, even though we don't realize it maybe, but I know I've done this, I'll admit, I've recorded, but sometimes you see and you're like, whoa, I wasn't smiling enough, or I wasn't doing this enough, or whatever, and you are telling that story, you know, with your face. So just seeing how things look might be helpful as well, especially if you're on the other table of, you know, with an interviewer. You want, you want to have what's coming out of your mouth, but also what is your face saying. 00:25:30 Lizze Winters: You're right. Your body language should certainly match. And so if you're talking about how passionate you are about something, even if you're not really a smiler, maybe that's a good time to smile. 00:25:42 Sumer Beatty: Bust out the smile, right? Yes. So are you doing mock interviews as well at the College here? Is that part of your role? 00:25:50 Lizze Winters: It sure is. We do a lot of, I do a lot of student facing appointments. my colleagues and I, tend to do, conduct an average of over 300 mock interviews per academic year with students. Some of those are voluntary because students have interviews coming up and they want to prep for them. But a lot of it is driven, thankfully by faculty who recognize the value of that career prep. And so they'll incorporate that as an assignment into their capstone courses or their first year classes. So that students can have those opportunities. 00:26:26 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, that's great. And so even if you're not here on Penn College campus, you can, again, enlist somebody who cares about you to, to do that type of mock interview with you. So I think that's great. 00:26:36 Lizze Winters: Sure. And it doesn't even have to be somebody who knows something about the industry you're interviewing in, right? I remember when I was interviewing for my first teaching position at a public high school, I wrote out a couple of questions. I gave them to my mother. who knows nothing about that industry. And I said, we're going to do a practice phone interview. I'm going to call you, answer the phone and ask me these questions, please. You know, so she couldn't necessarily even judge if I did well or not. Just that I had practiced saying it aloud and sometimes that's really all you need. 00:27:12 Sumer Beatty: I'd like to talk about the perfect career because Lizze and I were talking earlier, I said, I just gave her some example questions about what, what is the perfect career? And she said, don't ask me that. So, so why, why is there no perfect career or what I'll just ask you, what is, what is the perfect career? How do I know if I'm in the right spot, Lizze? 00:27:36 Lizze Winters: I didn't want you to ask me about the perfect career because I think that answer is different for everybody. But really, what's perfect now won't be perfect later. You know, if you start out in your career and you've prepped for it and you've earned a degree and a certification or a license so you can practice in this field. In five years, maybe you're ready to be the manager and now your career path is totally different, right? So to me, the perfect career is one which ignites something within you. When your alarm goes off in the morning or at night, if you're a night shift worker, you don't feel like, Oh, this is such a drag. You should feel to some extent, Oh, I, I like this project I'm working on. Oh, I love my patients. Oh, I can't wait to help my client accomplish this, whatever it is. So to me, that's the perfect career. And going a step further, the perfect career is also something that's going to help you live the lifestyle that you value. And you'll know what lifestyle you value because you've done your homework in advance to think about your values and what work looks like for you. I value a lot of time off because I have a three year old. You might not, and maybe you want to put your nose to the grindstone and work all day every day to figure out this new exciting thing. Well, then that's the perfect career for you. If you're somebody who wants to have summers off, if you're somebody who wants to work remotely so that you can travel, if you're somebody who wants to work with your hands, then you need to find a career that is, again, going to ignite that within you, but also, help that lifestyle that you want to live. And if so, if it's a secure, you know, a small house with a picket fence and two kids and a dog, well then you need to find a career that's going to use your skills and talents that's gonna help you do that, because that's what's gonna feed your soul. 00:29:41 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. You keep coming back to the words value or the word values. 00:29:44 Lizze Winters: Mm-Hmm. . 00:29:44 Sumer Beatty: So I think that's. That's a key takeaway here. So if, even if there's a, what do I do? What's my starting point? What are your values? And try to write them down. That doesn't hurt, right? If you're the kind of person, like, you want to do that pros and cons list, but write down those values and maybe that's a good, a good place to start. And that could even apply both to finding a career, but finding a college too. Because you had mentioned working with my hands, working with your hands. You don't want to be at a specific, you know, place that you can't get engaged. I've heard students say, I came here because I wasn't getting the hands on at my last college. I wasn't, I didn't feel like myself. And he was really speaking to his values. That wasn't who he was. So I think those values are a really big key takeaway here. 00:30:27 Lizze Winters: Absolutely. And you know, you can use the word journaling, but it doesn't even have to be that constant if you don't want it to be. It can sure just be a 30 minute exercise where you ask yourself some questions. Close your eyes and think, if I'm working every day, what does my work life look like? And that's a great place to start. And then write down what you envision and maybe go from there. colleges are the same way. If you want to connect, if you want a great experience in college, and hopefully you'll commit to your grades and learning a little more than I did as an undergrad, but, you know. 00:31:05 Sumer Beatty: Oh, no. 00:31:07 Lizze Winters: But one of the. 00:31:08 Sumer Beatty: Cut that out. She's been perfect. She's a perfect role model for your career advice here. 00:31:14 Lizze Winters: But one of the things. that you can do to find a college that's a great fit is read their mission statement. Look at their value statement. Does it align with what's important to you? And then look at their college catalog because every college has a college catalog and the list out their majors and the list out the courses that you'll take within that major. And I know it seems like a lot and, if, if students are listening, they're thinking, I'm not doing this, but I want you to do it. Read some of those courses that you'll take within that major because some of them might really excite you and you'll think, wow, A, I didn't know this was something I could major in. And B, holy moly, it sounds like something that I might really like, or you'll read it and think, absolutely not. And that's okay too, because you're still learning and remembering and staying true to your values. YouTube is an amazing resource. You can check out colleges on YouTube, look at their YouTube channels, watch some of the videos, if they have them where they interview their faculty members or they explore their classrooms and laboratories in their campus. Or they interview students, that's even better. 00:32:25 Sumer Beatty: Mm-Hmm. 00:32:25 Lizze Winters: Because the students will tell you the real story and then that can help you connect with, oh, maybe I see myself there. Maybe that's something that's really, again, going to ignite my soul. 00:32:38 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, and open houses are a great opportunity to, I know here at Penn College, if you come to an open house, you can meet students. So you know, even better talk to them, ask them questions. And all of this also applies to researching employers. You know, we talk about where, where do I want to be? Look at employer websites, read employer mission statements, right? We could take that, all that advice and repackage it and it could be useful in terms of what type of business you want to work for. 00:33:05 Lizze Winters: Sumer, you are speaking my language. Yes, and, and one of the easiest ways to do that is use LinkedIn. Employers all have an about page. Find them on LinkedIn, read their about page, read their mission, read how many people they employ and what countries they operate in and how they got their start and what type of employee culture building things they do there because then you'll be able to start seeing them more than this is a company in the industry that I might want to work in to Wow, this is a place where I could really find a work home and that can feel very different. 00:33:42 Sumer Beatty: Oh yeah, for sure. And I think people also want to make, most, many people want to make a difference. So what is, what is their, you know, going back to that mission statement, what, what is their goal? How can I be a part of that? And you know, and envision yourself. Can I, can I, can I envision myself there? 00:33:58 Lizze Winters: Sure, we want to do valuable work that feels worthwhile, right? There's no job satisfaction unless you have that. And so, the idea of career design, the idea of self exploration, the idea of exploring colleges or companies within your field that you might be interested in. All of that leads back to, Hey, what am I doing that feels valuable? 00:34:20 Sumer Beatty: I think we can't leave the conversation without considering ROI. You know, of course we want to make a difference. We, we want to feel really good about pursuing our passion, but there, we need to make the life that we want. You mentioned the, the picket fence and everybody has goals, you know, and finances are part of them. So, how does ROI play into that whole decision? 00:34:40 Lizze Winters: Unfortunately, we're making really important decisions when we're young people often, right? And we don't necessarily have all of the information. I will say that nationally, one of the organizations that guides our professionalism in the field of career education is the National Association of Colleges and Employers. And there are thousands of members of the higher ed community and industries across the country. They do a lot of surveys. Their 2023 survey did point out that right now still 68 percent of entry level jobs do require a bachelor's degree. And so, while we have heard a lot of things that might say you don't need college, well that could be true. But most of the professional level, entry level positions that are out there still do require a degree. So there is that idea that, If you want to be involved in those industries or fields, you're going to need some sort of post secondary education. You know, I think it's also important to think about what is your job placement going to be? You want to research institutions where there is a proven track record that you are going to be prepared to do the thing that the industry that you're studying wants you to do. And so I think if it were me as a student, I would definitely look at job placement ratings amongst colleges that I might be interested in because there's more ROI if you're going to get out there and start working immediately in your field than if you're searching and searching and you don't have a job for a certain period of time after graduation. 00:36:16 Sumer Beatty: I think that plays into our discussion earlier with the ability to find a job that can grow with you and I think there's a big difference with coming out of high school and jumping into a job or going to college and getting a career and having that degree gives you that ability to have mobility as you grow and have more opportunities to branch into different areas because In some cases, you know, job descriptions will even just, or ads will just say, A bachelor's degree, blah, blah, blah, or equivalent or something like that. And it's like, well, as you know, I have this base. I can go many different directions. Whereas if you just graduate from high school and just jump into a job, your mobility is not where it is if you have a degree. That's I don't have the stat right here, but I can find them for you later because they're out there in many places, right? 00:37:08 Lizze Winters: Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, we think about ROI really as how much more am I going to earn over a lifetime, right? So by having that mobility, by having skills in other areas, by having practice with the problem solving and the critical thinking and advancing your skills in a particular area, Well, it means you can probably apply it to something else later. And so, with the mobility and the degree, your ROI through the course of a lifetime of earnings is significantly higher. Study after study will tell you that people who have an associate degree or a bachelor's degree will earn much more over a lifetime than those who don't, on average. 00:37:55 Carlos Ramos: And it's compounding. It's, you know, you start higher and you continue to make those greater increases throughout. And I think it's important to, to note and go back to your life design to say ROI, it's, yes, it's, we tend to think of it as the financials, but it's not just the financials. It's that, Lizze being able to take. She knows she's got all of her weekends. She knows she has her evenings to spend with the three year old. That we all have that time to do the thing that we want to do when we want to do it. Like, I want to go run today at noon because I don't really want to wait until seven o'clock tonight. It's Friday. Why do I want to do that? So, you know, I put myself in a position where I can take that little bit longer, lunch. I think even those micro moments are the important things to think about. 00:38:46 Lizze Winters: Absolutely. Because in the United States, we tend to associate our career with our life, and they're really intertwined. And so if you're not doing something that allows you to be fulfilled on all fronts, including getting your run in or staying home with your sick kiddo, if that's what you need to do, well, then you haven't really designed something that works for you and you can always go back and revisit. And that's the beautiful thing, right? I think takeaways from conversations are important and people should definitely take away the idea that your career choices are always shifting, right? They're always shifting and growing and changing and you can change them. 00:39:25 Sumer Beatty: And what role does volunteering play in all of this? 00:39:28 Lizze Winters: Well, volunteering is a really great way to build skills, and we always recommend that if you're interested in a new field or you want to maybe develop some professional skills, one really great way is to find something that you're interested in volunteering in, whether it's a hospital or healthcare system, whether it's some sort of trades, If it is working with children or anything like that, you know, you can gain great professional experience. You can learn how to interact as a member of a team. and you can feel really good about the work that you're doing at the same time. So all of that can contribute to knowledge of an industry, add something to put something on your resume. 00:40:16 Sumer Beatty: That's what I was thinking. Yeah, that's a great point. It's also a little bit of career exploration too. 00:40:22 Lizze Winters: Definitely, because maybe you decide, Oh, this isn't for me. Or maybe based on your volunteering, you get really into the topic and you start to become an expert in the field, thereby developing that side gig or. Those management skills or that design skill or whatever the case may be. So you can definitely find out what professions exist within that larger industry. 00:40:47 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, good points. 00:40:48 Lizze Winters: Nobody took a straight line from point A to point B and did it for 40 years and retired and now they don't do anything else. It's never too late to learn something new. Be explorative, be adventurous, ask questions. If you learn something new, it's going to positively have a ripple effect on every single thing around you. And then I think the last thing is really, if you aren't purposeful about planning your career and your professional existence, you know, it's just like a reputation. It will be built, but you might not be the one in the driver's seat and that might be okay, except that you'll always have more limited options. So if you're the one driving the bus, you're going to continue to have multiple options in any aspect of your career adventure. 00:41:38 Sumer Beatty: That's great. Thank you so much. You just packaged everything up in a neat little package with a bow. 00:41:44 Lizze Winters: Thank you. 00:41:44 Sumer Beatty: That was a nice conclusion. Thank you so much. 00:41:47 Lizze Winters: Yeah, this was really great fun. Thanks for having me. 00:41:49 Sumer Beatty: Thank you. Thanks for hanging out with us today. 00:41:54 Carlos Ramos: Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. 00:41:59 Sumer Beatty: Check out our show notes for bookmarks to your favorite sections and links to resources that we mentioned in today's episode. 00:42:05 Carlos Ramos: You can also find past episodes and see what's on deck for upcoming ones at pct.edu/podcast. 00:42:12 Sumer Beatty: And of course, we are open to your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions. So send those over at podcast@pct.edu. 00:42:20 Carlos Ramos: It's been real. 00:42:21 Sumer Beatty: Catch you next time.