Carl Bower Jr: The Science & Art of Growing

00:00:00 Carlos Ramos: Welcome to Tomorrow Makers, where we explore how we learn, live, work, and play now and in the future. I'm Carlos Ramos. 00:00:12 Sumer Beatty: And I'm Sumer Beatty. 00:00:13 Carlos Ramos: Hey Sumer! 00:00:14 Sumer Beatty: Hey Carlos! 00:00:15 Carlos Ramos: How are you? 00:00:16 Sumer Beatty: I'm doing all right, how are you? 00:00:18 Carlos Ramos: I'm doing wonderful. Really because of who we just talked to for this episode of Tomorrow Makers. We have Carl Bower who is a faculty member in landscape and plant production at Penn College, department head. I had so many questions that I, I couldn't even get to ask him cause I'm like, that this is being selfish. No one wants to hear about why I want to talk to Carl. My wife and I have this, you know, amazing garden here in town with so many raised beds and she's so much into the landscaping to the point where I'm like, can we stop? 00:00:51 Sumer Beatty: But it's takes over your summer. When he was talking about that, I was think, God, he does. Oh, you're relating big time. 00:00:57 Carlos Ramos: Absolutely. but yeah, so many, tips that, he, he provides, but it's just the, the tip of the iceberg. 00:01:04 Sumer Beatty: Oh yeah. We're gonna have to have him back. 00:01:07 Carlos Ramos: Absolutely. 00:01:07 Sumer Beatty: That was a fun one. 00:01:08 Carlos Ramos: And you know, I, I am going to bring you that rhubarb thing. 00:01:13 Sumer Beatty: Okay, you're going 00:01:14 Carlos Ramos: to make a little rhubarb strawberry crisp. Yes, we're going to change your mind on rhubarb. 00:01:18 Sumer Beatty: All right, maybe with some coffee. Hope you enjoy this one. 00:01:28 Carlos Ramos: All right, so Sumer, who do we have today? 00:01:30 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, we've got Carl Bower with us today. He is the assistant professor of horticulture at Penn College. Welcome. 00:01:37 Carl Bower: Hey, thank you. It's great to be here. 00:01:38 Sumer Beatty: Nice to have you. Well, let's start at the beginning. How did you journey into horticulture? 00:01:45 Carl Bower: You know, it, I guess it was in college. You know, I was like most kids in high school. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I was actually, you know, local. I was from Williamsport and, and, you know, I knew Penn College. And, and so I, I decided to come to Penn College for business because I thought, Oh, that's, that's safe. That gives you a lot of options. And I came for business and, you know, I liked it and got through the two years and then it's all right, well, I'm not ready. I don't know what I'm going to do yet. So I went to Lock Haven and, and I was there for, for another year. And, And then, but every day I go to the library and I'm looking at like Fine Gardening Magazine and Horticulture Magazine and so do all my economics and finance and I thought, this is stupid. I don't like this stuff at all. I kind of like plants and, and I, I didn't really plant much growing up when I was at home when I was, you know, earlier in high school, I did a little bit here and there, but I, I wasn't a greenhouse class in like a middle school. And, and that was about it. And, and after I started, it might have been even three and a half years into my degree. And, and school had just started. I got all my books, went to all my classes, and I thought, This is stupid. I'm not doing this. I went home to my parents and said, you know, I'm, I'm quitting. And what do you mean? And I told them what I thought I wanted to do and they said, well, go talk to somebody. So I had friends that had a nursery landscape garden center business and I went and I said, you know, is this a legit business? I mean, I know you guys have your own business, but you know, I don't really want to have my own business. I don't think, you know, is this something I can make a living at or is this a summer gig? And like, oh my gosh, no, this is something. You can make a living at, and I said, you know, I just really, I, I think I really like this. And and after that I said, that's it. So I went back to Lock Haven and I said, yeah, and went to the registrar's and I said, I, I quit. And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what do you mean? And, and you know, I told them, you know, what I was thinking and, and it was the day after I could get a full refund and I'm thinking, oh crap, I'm going to lose all this money. And, but I told them my story and they go. All right. We'll, we'll, we'll give you your money back and take your books back. We'll give you a, and I said, Oh, sweet. And, so that was in August and school had already started at Penn College. Yeah. I, you know, I knew about Penn College because I grew up going to the open houses we had here cause they were kind of more for the community. And I knew they had that program. And actually the guy I talked to, he graduated or, you know, some of us, you know, family or graduated from the program. So I said, I'll go over there. But it was like a week after or two weeks after Penn College started so I couldn't and so I took that semester off and I was just worked and then I started in in December and and I remember, you know, going and And of course, you know, starting in December, a lot of your, your co you know, your classmates have already started in in August, but it just, you know, it was just seamless and it was like, man, this is, this is neat. I mean, this is, this is a lot of fun. I know I can, I can get my, I can get into this. And, just quickly assimilated and yeah, it was a, it, you know, I found my. my niche at that point, so. 00:04:46 Carlos Ramos: Good on Lock Haven for doing that. 00:04:47 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. 00:04:48 Carlos Ramos: Good on Penn College for letting you come in for that couple weeks after and letting the stars align. That's great. 00:04:54 Carl Bower: Yeah. Well, no, I didn't start, I didn't start in August. I had to wait until, until January. 00:04:58 Carlos Ramos: Oh, you did? 00:04:59 Carl Bower: Yeah. 00:04:59 Carlos Ramos: You had to do a spring start. Okay. 00:05:00 Carl Bower: Yeah. Yeah. And so there are students, some of my students now that, that do come in in January and, you know, we're one of the programs that allows spring starts. Not all of them do. And, they go, Oh, am I going to be able to do this? And I said, well, you know, I, I did this. I said, it's, you know, it definitely is, is doable. I said, you know, there's some, some things you might seem a little lost on. We'll catch up. And, yeah, it's, you know, it, it works, work for me. 00:05:23 Sumer Beatty: That's great. So then graduated from Penn College and then I'm thinking you probably went into industry, worked for a little bit. 00:05:31 Carl Bower: Well, when, when I was in college, we went to Longwood Gardens on a field trip and I remember walking into Longwood Gardens and thinking, Oh my God, this is awesome. I would love to work here. I would love to, you know, intern here. And, and so I, I interned at Longwood and I was actually the first, student from Penn College that interned at Longwood and, was there for the summer and I just loved it. And, and I really would have, you know, maybe thought about. And so I was doing that as a as a career but after my internship I still had a semester to go and or two semesters to two semesters to go. And I just wasn't ready to move away from home yet. But you know, that kind of, you know, Botanical Gardens, you know, high end maintenance, I just really love that. And so, you know, I did that and I got a chance to to visit all these other gardens, Botanical Gardens, it was just, it was tremendous. And then so I come back for that last semester or last two semesters and finish things up and then I, I went into industry and, there was a company, a local company that I had known for years and years, we, you know, grew up, you know, close to each other and I went to work for him and, and he was just terrific about, I knew him and, and, you know, knew the family and, he was just a really good guy and, you know, and I did that for, for a dozen or a dozen or better years, full time and, And then I, you know, I always kept in touch with the folks here and, and I come over for one of the open houses and, and, Rich Wildmister, he was my professor, and he's just, you know, an icon and, and he said, Hey Carl, you know, we're, you know, we're looking to hire somebody part time, he says, why don't you apply? Me? I'm not a, I'm not a teacher. And he says, oh yeah, he says, you know, it's plant ID, he says, you know your plants, you know, your personal bowls, he says, you know, I think you'd do real well in it. And, and I do remember. When I was a student, he told us all, you know, you guys are all going to be educators. And you know, we're all sitting there going, you know, we're 18, 20 years old and it's like, well, we're going to be landscapers. What are you talking about? And he said, he says, no, it's just when people realize what you do, that you have an education. Because they're going to ask you so many questions and, and, you know, you're going to teach them about plants, about, you know, landscaping, about, you know, whatever. And, and I never forgot that. I still tell my students that. I said, you know, you guys are going to be educators, you know. You know, you might say, well, I want to be, you know, I want to be a hardscaper. Okay, that's great. But, you know, there's going to be a time when, you know, Mrs. Johnson says, Hey, you know, you're on my patio, but I got a plant inside that's not looking good. You know, come, you know, do you know what's the matter with it? And I remember the first time a client asked me that and I thought. It's a ficus. I don't know anything about interior plants. And what am I gonna, I don't know, I don't know, I'm gonna get sick. And, and I remember going in and, you know, everything come back to me and I said, well, yeah, it's got this on it. And, you know, this is, this is why, and this is how you can fix it. And, and I said, you know, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna do that. I mean, that's, that's what. And I said, honestly, you know, you might end up becoming a teacher, that's why I still say, you know, never say never, I mean, I never thought I'd be in this position, you know, you might end up, you know, as, you know, as a teacher someplace, and there's plenty of our graduates that have done that, and, But you're, you know, you are going to be educating, you know, people. 00:08:48 Sumer Beatty: That's an interesting way to think about it. I was, I was wondering as you were telling that story, how many questions you field from friends and family who have questions, you know, this plant just doesn't seem to be surviving in this location. Or what should I put here? What would be best? 00:09:02 Carl Bower: In the summer, quite often, I mean, there's, there's days that I might get three or four texts. 00:09:06 Sumer Beatty: Oh my goodness. 00:09:06 Carl Bower: And, and you know, it doesn't bother me. I mean, I, I kind of enjoy, I love that problem solving, trying to figure out what's wrong with things. And some things. Yeah, you know right away and others like, Oh, I don't know. And then you find yourself, all right, well, when are you going to be home? I'll stop over and, and I'll take a look at it. Cause you know, I can't, I can't be stumped. I don't, I don't want him to say, I don't want to say, I don't know. I want to say, Oh, I'll figure it out for you. So yeah, there are some days 00:09:30 Carlos Ramos: I didn't know you do house calls, 00:09:32 Sumer Beatty: the plant doctor. 00:09:33 Carlos Ramos: I got about 800 feet of garden, square feet of garden, actually more than that, it's crazy the amount of garden we have. For two people, I've got, I don't know, 12 raised beds, so yeah, I'll be ready for you to come over. 00:09:49 Sumer Beatty: Oh, I opened the floodgates, I'm sorry. 00:09:52 Carl Bower: I'll diagnose, but you know, the work, the work is actually a little more. 00:09:57 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, there's an app idea. I don't know if anybody's done that where you upload a photo or something that, or Dr., the plant, Dr. Carl, you can reach out and say, Hey, this is the picture of what's happening with my plant. What's wrong with it? And you can diagnose on that. Yeah. 00:10:12 Carlos Ramos: Cause I mean the iPhone, you can, you can point your, your phone to a plant and it'll tell you, I mean, it seems pretty accurate. 00:10:19 Carl Bower: Oh yeah, I'm not on Apple, I have an Android, so I have Google Lens, and that is awesome. And I can't tell you how many times somebody will send me something, I'll save the picture, I'll Google Lens it, and give them an answer right away, and they think I'm a genius, and say, this is just Google Lens, and I've told this story before, the first time I learned about that app, my son was like 9 years old, and a friend of mine said, hey, there's a Norway Spruce over on, you know, whatever street in town. It's really different. I don't, I don't know if it's a cultivar or what. Can you check it out? And, and so I'm driving and my son's in the backseat and, and we, I said, I gotta, I said, I gotta pull over here and look at this tree. And, and I'm looking at this tree and he goes, and I sit there for a while and he goes, dad, what are we doing? I said, I'm trying to figure out what kind of tree this is. And he goes, he's nine. He goes, it's a Norway spruce. And I turned around and I said, what in the world? And he goes. Google. I said, how do you know that? He goes, Google lens. And I was like, Oh, I gotta, I have to learn what this is. So yeah, he, and I said, well, I know it is a Norway Spruce. Thank you. I appreciate it. I just don't know if it's a different, a different kind or what. So, well, I've gotten to, you know, you. You see that, you know, click here for a tip. I saved that picture and so when some people send me things, I'll send them that picture back and I'll say, here, just, you know, what's, what's your tip? They just laugh. 00:11:39 Sumer Beatty: Well, yeah, it could be a paid app, you know, even 99 cents would add up. 00:11:43 Carl Bower: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. But no, I don't mind. And I tell the students, I remember. meeting, there was a faculty member in Ohio, that I met and she was telling me how she would tell her students, send me pictures of plants you don't know, and I'll tell you what they are. I'm thinking, Oh my God, I can't imagine how many, how many they're going to be sending you pictures all the time. It would just take forever. And, and then a couple of years ago, I, I started to do that. And I, you know, I. I got my cell phone on my syllabus and I said, you know, you guys, you know, if you're gonna be late, text me. And I said, if you see some plants, you're not sure. I said, I said, you know, just text me a picture, I'll let you know. And and there are some that you know, that do that quite frequently. And and they're usually the better students, you know, 'cause they're really, you know, they wanna learn. And, you know, it usually doesn't take me that long to, to figure things out. And so, yeah, there are several students that'll, that'll regularly, and even the one student before he left, I said, keep sending me those pictures, keeps them on my toes. And he sent me a picture last year that it was, you know, it was like a Bigfoot picture. It was like. What is this? What are you showing me? I'm so grainy. And, and I showed my wife, I said, look at this. He sent me this picture. And she goes, Oh yeah, that's cool. I'd get a better picture. And, and I figured it out. And I was like, Oh, I said, I said, you keep me on my toes. And, you know, as I asked just one or two questions, it looks like this. He goes, yeah, that's what it is. So yeah, so I, I actually, I kind of thrive on that, but that's really cool. Yeah. So 00:13:08 Carlos Ramos: I'm sitting over here thinking of even more app ideas that involve plants that you get up with, but that's a rabbit hole. We don't want to get down, but I'm, I'll just put this out there. Sunglasses that can detect poison, ivy, poison, oak, and poisonous snakes and spiders. 00:13:23 Sumer Beatty: Sunglasses. 00:13:24 Carlos Ramos: Yeah. 00:13:25 Sumer Beatty: Well, you could .... Yeah. 00:13:26 Carlos Ramos: Yeah. So a little heads up display, but connected to the Carl Bower app. That, that gives me all that I do. 00:13:33 Carl Bower: I do feel a lot of poisoning questions. 00:13:35 Sumer Beatty: And guess who's very, very susceptible to poison ivy? 00:13:38 Carl Bower: Oh really? 00:13:38 Carlos Ramos: Oh my gosh. 00:13:39 Carl Bower: Yeah, no, I, I, I field a lot of those. 00:13:41 Sumer Beatty: He breathes it and gets a rash. 00:13:42 Carlos Ramos: Yes. 00:13:44 Sumer Beatty: There's probably more, more people out there like that, so. 00:13:47 Carlos Ramos: Oh yeah, definitely. 00:13:48 Carl Bower: That's a plant that can look so different. 00:13:49 Sumer Beatty: You can use your HSA to buy it too. Use your HSA maybe. 00:13:53 Carl Bower: Oh, here you go. It's a medical device. 00:13:55 Sumer Beatty: Just throwing ideas out there for any entrepreneurs listening, but moving on. So I, a lot of people might say, Oh, I, you know, I'm a, just a gardener. I can, I've learned from this person or I can read about it or, you know, whatever, learn in my own way. What is, in your opinion, the real benefit to a formal education like you're offering at Penn College? 00:14:16 Carl Bower: You know, the, Especially landscaping, you know, that is a profession that you can get in, you know, you get a mower and a pickup truck and you can get in pretty, pretty easily. But I, I really think the, all the different avenues that our students get exposed to, you know, cause horticulture is, is so dynamic, you know, you could go through our program and you can become a landscaper or a designer or a hardscape, you know, professional, you know, somebody that does maintenance or florist or tree care. And so you get exposed to all those different things. And so, you know, I've had graduates say over the years, you know, yeah, there's some things I learned at school that I know has saved me thousands of dollars, you know, because if I was I was just doing it on my own, I wouldn't have known that, and I would have just did whatever, and, you know, going to school, you know, that, that prepared me for all those different avenues, and, and there are students that come to us and they say, I want to do this, you know, I want to be a designer, or I want to work, And, you know, there was a student a couple of years ago that wanted to work in medical marijuana and, and, and after he graduated, he did get a job in that and, and was there for like three months and hated it. And, and then, but, you know, he had, he had skills and knowledge of, you know, Hey, what else is out there in the plant world? And, you know, in the green industry and he got a job and. And he goes, lawn care. And he goes, I love it. He says, you, and he goes, if you would have told me when I was a student that I was going to love this as much as I did, I would have fought you. I would have said, nope, I'm going to get into, into, into growing. That's what I want to do. And, you know, I think having, you know, going through that formal education and realizing what else is out there and, you know, if I don't like something. You know, I can, I can jump to something else. But, you know, some of those, some of those folks that, you know, do start a business and they're kind of focused just on, you know, landscaping, they don't realize, you know, all the different things you can do, out there and, you know, and may not have that, that knowledge and, and it may take them years to get that. You know, you know, I've had students that, that have, you know, just interned and work for a company and, you know, and, and, And they've come back and said, I knew more than the owner did. Oh boy, yeah. And you know, it's, you know, maybe it was because it was about insects or disease and I said, they didn't know anything. And I said, that was kind of, kind of surprising. And I said, yeah, you know, you, yeah, you know, you know a lot. That's, you know, that's, that's a great thing. And that, you know, if you decide to stay in that. You know, designing or whatever, you can do that. But, you know, if you wanted to get into this extra disease or sales or whatever, you could do that because you have, you know, you've made those connections, you have those networks and, and you know, those other, other avenues out there. 00:16:55 Sumer Beatty: Mm-Hmm. . And there's so many benefits to being on a college campus in general and just having that holistic experience. And as you went through the program and you had your business side too. So like there is that opportunity to have, take business courses too along with it. So. Yeah, that's a, 00:17:11 Carl Bower: You know, there's, there's, there've been students over the years that, there was one student that was injured. He was on a car accident and he said, ah, he says, I'm not gonna be able to do this anymore. And so what do you mean? And he goes, I, I can't landscape. I'm all, you know, it's just, you know, it's going to take me years to, to recover from this. And I said, I said, well, there's other things you can do. I mean, this isn't all just physical. And actually his dad actually was a sales rep and he sold trees. And I said, I said, look at your dad. I said, your dad, you know, he doesn't do any physical. I mean, he's, he's selling trees and I says, he loves that. And I says, you know, I said, yeah, that's just one avenue. And he goes, Oh, because I never thought about that. And it just kind of blew me away. It's like, you know, you're seeing that in your family that, you know, you're not even seeing that that's a, that's an option. And and that's actually what he did for a couple of years was, you know, he was a, he was a sales rep for a tree care or a tree company. And then a couple more years later, he, you know, kind of got, you know, some rehab and kind of got a strength back. And then he, he went into, landscaping and did a lot of construction and then he did something else. You know, I tell the students, again, you know, never say never, you don't know where you're going to end up in five years, you know, what you want to do now, you know, it's not like your grandfather that started at a job and worked for 45 years and retired. I said, you're going to have 10, you know, 5, 10, 12 jobs and, you know, it might even be just in, you know, a couple of years. Hopefully you're not bouncing around that much, but you know, you're, you're not going to stay in the same place and, and they don't realize that until they get out. and move around a little bit and say, Oh yeah, I did go, I did this, I did this. Cause, you know, I, maybe they left because they didn't like, you know, a person. Maybe they didn't like, you know, the job. But, but they're gonna, they're gonna go wherever because they can. 00:18:57 Carlos Ramos: But I think that's so amazing about your program areas and the students that come into it and that the the Opportunities that they they have and that they take to shape their future once they get out of here I know we have one video profile. We'll link it up in the show notes of a student who's gone off and Just it's like what three years out of four years, maybe 00:19:19 Carl Bower: Oh yeah, I know who you're talking about yeah 00:19:22 Carlos Ramos: And I mean, he's killing it. 00:19:23 Carl Bower: Yeah. 00:19:25 Carlos Ramos: it's just amazing stuff. So, I mean, if you're of that temperament with, you know, you like the outdoors, or, you know, you have that affinity for the plants or you have that affinity for, for beautiful, you know, hardscapes and landscapes that You know, yeah. 00:19:38 Carl Bower: The opportunities are endless. Yeah. 00:19:41 Carlos Ramos: Absolutely. 00:19:43 Sumer Beatty: And you get students involved out in the community too, right? Like you have connections where they get to do actual projects. 00:19:50 Carl Bower: Yeah. So that's, that's a lot of fun when you get to do, to do that. Cause students, you know, you can tell them all kinds of stuff in the class, but you know, until you're out. Doing it with a, a real client. And, you know, I always like when, you know, I tell them stories, oh, you know, you're gonna be dealing with clients that, that do this or do that or say this, and, you know, it's not necessarily what they mean. And, and then, oh, okay, yeah, Bower, that's, you know, you know that's what you're saying. But then you go out and do that and you know. And they get that feedback and they're like, man, this is, this person's harder to deal with than I thought. Or, or, oh yeah. You know, I remember what you said. Yeah. This is kind of exactly what it is. And, and, and they can get some criticism that, is maybe not exactly what they're looking for. but I mean, that's, that's part of it. 00:20:31 Sumer Beatty: Mm-Hmm. 00:20:32 Carl Bower: You know. yeah, that's me. That definitely is, is part of it. Or they also, well. can realize just how appreciative people are of their knowledge. And, and I tell them that, you know, if we go out and do like a community service, you know, project, whether it's in class or for the club, I said, you guys have a skillset that not everybody has, and they're gonna, they're gonna want. You know, they, you know, they're gonna seek you out and, you know, that's gotta feel good. You know, we did, we did a project for a local library and, and I went and, and, and the back, the area of the library was just a mess. And, and the director was looking at it and was like, I don't know what to do with this. I'm like, well, you could do this and this and this. Yeah. She's like, wow, that's, I never thought about that. And, and so, you know, I told the students that, and I said, we're gonna go down and look at it. And I said, give, you know, gimme your ideas. And, she's like, Oh, man, I just looked at this as a mess and, and you guys see opportunities. That's, that's pretty neat. And, and so, you know, they got to, you know, to see that, hey, you know, what I, when, you know, what we do, what we can bring to the table is valuable. You know, people, they want to, you know, they, they want to, to search you out and to, you know, to, to hire us and, and, 00:21:45 Sumer Beatty: I think there's that scientific part of it, knowing it's horticulture, but there's also this artistic piece, right? Like that's part of the program where. 00:21:53 Carl Bower: Yeah, and that is, I mean, that is what horticulture is. It's the art and science of growing and maintaining. You know, developing, you know, plants and especially ornamental plants. And you know, I tell, and I'll talk to high school students and I say, do you tell your friends you're in horticulture? And they go, yeah. And sometimes, yeah, yeah we do. You know, because that's what the program is called. And I said, do they know what you're talking about? And they go, no. Because this one, it's all, you know, it's a hard word for, I mean, I've asked, you know, my nephew, I remember years ago, he was in high school and I said, do any of your friends know what horticulture is? He says, no. He says, and if you didn't do it, I wouldn't know either. And so, you know, I tell him, I said, well, this is what horticulture is, you know, the art and science. And, and so, you know, I'm fortunate, I mean, I get to teach in both disciplines. you know, I probably tend to lead more towards the, You know, the art side of things, but yeah, I teach like an insects and disease class. I mean, that's, that's pretty much all science. but, you know, it's hard to find any art in, you know, in insects and disease, but, you know, I also teach landscape design and, and that's obviously art, but, you know, the science part is, is that plant going to grow in that, in that, you know, environment? And so, you know, understanding how the plant grows. where it grows and then having it look nice. And that's the art part. And, and I do, I really enjoy growing plants. I mean, I enjoy growing plants, but I enjoy growing plants that, that look different than what, you know, most people see. I mean, I, you know, I practice, Practice, bonzai, you know, at home. And, but you know, I especially, Coleus, if you know the plant Coleus, yeah. They, I love to grow that as a standard. Now, what that means in the plant world is kind of as a tree form. And so I'll, it's so easy to, you know, to take a, a Coleus, you get at the. at the greenhouse and, you know, take some of the lower branches off and train it to a straight stem and develop this little ball on top that looks like a topiary and I loved doing that because, you know, the art is making it look like a tree and making it look like and having people say, Oh, my coleus doesn't do that. How in the world did you do that? And, you know, and I'll, I'll show them or tell them, but no, the, the, you know, the science is, you know, knowing that you can do that with a plant and, and they look at that plant after, you know, You know, a couple months of, of being exposed to the sunlight and that trunk, you know, the, you know, the main stem, you know, turns into a trunk from, you know, from being exposed to the sunlight. It gets really woody and they're like, oh. Coleus does that? 00:24:22 Sumer Beatty: I didn't realize that. I would have said the same thing. I love Coleus and the different varieties. Are you inside with it or outside? It's a summertime? 00:24:30 Carl Bower: It's a summertime thing. I've grown Coleus several feet tall with two foot heads on in the summertime. And I just love people saying What is that? How did you do that? And so yeah, I get a kick out of that. But yeah, when people see that woody stem they're like, Oh, what did you do? How did you make that happen? And I say, I'm pretty amazing. 00:24:53 Sumer Beatty: So while we're talking about, what are your other summer plant, your favorites? 00:24:57 Carl Bower: Oh, just, there's, yeah, there's, there's a lot. I grow a lot of my house. I, you know, I use my 00:25:02 Sumer Beatty: I've heard about your house, by the way, I've only driven by it and you have a fence up so you can't see what's back there, but I've heard it's pretty amazing. 00:25:09 Carl Bower: There's a lot of stuff there. And, and, you know, I, so I use my house as kind of my, you know, my playground and, and to try things out that, you know, I've. You know, I say that, you know, I buy a gardening book. I might get it on the reduce rack for five bucks, but it'll cost me like a thousand. I'll find ideas in there. So I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. And, and, you know, I like doing things in my garden that people will say, Oh, I never thought about doing that. or, or, you know, you do something that, you know, I can show the students or, you know, Hey, this is a, this is an opportunity. I did this in my house and, and, you know, a lot of times the students would come to the house towards the end, you know, of their time, you know, I don't have about the first day, Hey, I'm having a party or having a pool party, you know, that can be dangerous, but, you know, a lot of times right before they graduate, Hey, come on over, we'll have pizza or whatever. And, and, But, you know, I'll say, and I'll show pictures of the house and the gardener. I'll say, Oh, this is growing. And I'll say, Oh, Bower, how many plants do you have in your house? And, you know, sometimes, you know, they're a little small, but, you know, the thing, it's always changing. And, you know, I'll do something that, that is different. Like, you know, we have some big oak trees in front of the house and, and there was a straight sidewalk and it was all getting buckled from the roots. And, and, you know, and I've seen. You know, places where they, you know, go take a sidewalk all the way out around and I said, I'm going to do that. And you know, yeah, there's, there's very few that I see like that in Williamsport, but I said, just notice one down the street from my house that did that. And I know the guy walks, you know, in front of our house all the time. And I mean, that's great, you know, but, you know, I'd love to be able to, you know, kind of share that, you know, that, you know, you know, that information and, and. Those ideas and, and you know, so I, I do, you know, you're, you know, you're more welcome to go over the house and, you know, I have garden clubs coming, you know, all the time. 00:26:58 Sumer Beatty: 'Dear listeners, you're invited to Carl's house and we'll share his, 00:27:01 Carl Bower: the address is blah 00:27:02 Sumer Beatty: private phone number and email in case if you... 00:27:04 Carlos Ramos: Well, I, I was thinking in the next marketing team meeting is gonna be over at Carl's house. 00:27:08 Sumer Beatty: A little, yeah. Planting session. 00:27:11 Carl Bower: It usually, it starts to look the best by June, June, July, just because. During school, I'm so busy. And then, you know, the summer hits and it's like, oh, you're trying to get ready for the summer. And by, you know, June, July, it looks pretty good. So, you know, I'll speak to a lot of garden clubs and, you know, I show pictures of the house and, and they'll, they'll say, wow, is that, is that your house? Do you ever do chores? Yeah, come on over. So, you know, all, a lot of the local garden clubs have all been there. And, and, and what's neat is when they say, Yeah, you tell them something and then they come back a year later and say, I did that, I did what you said, that really works, or that's neat. You know, I showed a picture of a, of a plant that's called a Amsonia. It's a threadleaf blue star. And it's just the softest, you know, plant out there. Just has a really neat feel. And I showed it in the, in the picture. It was right next to the sidewalk and I said, you know, this is one of those plants, you know, you just got to touch when you walk by. And I, you know, little old lady say, why don't you touch your plants? And, yeah, and don't you? I'm not, I just really look at them. And I said, Oh no. I says you gotta, I says, some of these plants are just kind of calm for you. You gotta touch 'em. And, oh, I never thought about that. So , so that garden club come over and, and she saw that plant, she goes, oh, is that that plant you touch? yeah. 00:28:29 Sumer Beatty: Like, it was just that particular variety that you needed to. 00:28:32 Carl Bower: And, I said, yeah, touch it. And she goes, Ooh, that's really neat, . 00:28:36 Carlos Ramos: You gotta touch 'em, you gotta talk to them. 00:28:39 Carl Bower: And so, so she come back, she was there like a year, a couple, you know, a couple years later. She's, you're right. She's like, I put, I bought one of those plants, I put it next to the sidewalk and I touch it when I walk by. It's so neat. 00:28:50 Sumer Beatty: That's such a literal translation. 00:28:51 Carl Bower: Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, there's some things like lavender that, you know, you might walk by and it brushes and it smells good. You might reach down and touch that, but this just had a soft feel to it. I said, Oh my gosh, there's so many of these plants that just, you know, kind of. Speak to you. You got to touch that because it just, you know, it has a neat look or feel. 00:29:08 Sumer Beatty: Is there a scientific benefit to touching them? I've wondered that and it's funny you would say that because the other day on the way to the, on the hallway, I was, I was passing one of our horticulture people here at the college and she was working with a plant in the hallway. And I said to her, this might seem silly, but I can ask you because I know this is your business. Is it helpful to touch the plants? Like for two reasons, I touch them because I feel like they. are just calling me. Yeah. So I do it. Very cool. But also because they get dusty. . , so I just feel like it has two purposes. Yeah, but I didn't know if, because I know they say plants respond, some plants respond to the sounds of music. 00:29:48 Carl Bower: Yeah. 00:29:49 Sumer Beatty: So is it. 00:29:50 Carl Bower: You know, yeah, I've heard that music, the music one too, and I think there's something about sound waves and, and, you know, not that I don't put a lot of faith in that and I don't think you're going to be able to turn the radio on and, you know, come out the next day and it's like, I got Jack and the Beanstalk here. 00:30:05 Sumer Beatty: Oh, right, right, right. 00:30:06 Carl Bower: You know, but I, I mean, I think there is. Some benefit from music. I mean, I've heard that. I've never tried that, but, you know, obviously, you know, touching your plants, I think the idea behind touching or talking to your plants, especially talking to your plants is that you're, you're paying them a lot more attention. You know, you know, my, my extent of talking to my plants are, come on, why aren't you growing? What's the matter with you? You know, I'm not like, oh, look how cute you look. And, and I don't know, I might say that sometimes, but, but, you know, but I'm, I'm, you know, I'm kind of focusing on, oh, I got a dead head you. Oh, geez, you got a dead flower. I got a. 00:30:38 Sumer Beatty: The care process. 00:30:39 Carl Bower: Yeah, it's the care process. Yeah. So, but, you know, beyond that, just the, you know, the, that physical touch. I mean, there's, you know, there's something innate, you know, in us that, you know, we need to have that connection to nature. So. You know, whether it's touching that, you know, that foliage or, you know, planting that plant and getting that, you know, dirt between your nails. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think we, we need that. I mean, yeah, I, you know, I have read and heard things about, you know, the connection to, you know, to earth. But, and I, you know, I haven't delved into that, but I just know that I need to, I need to touch plants. And even, even this weekend, it was so cold. And, you know, people say, oh, you know, you must, you know, hate it, not being able to do things, you know, outside and say, well, you know, it's kind of nice to have a break. 'cause you know, your whole summer is just devoted to, you know, working on the garden. And, now there's a lot of plants that I, you know, that I bring in and I can only do so much with those, but. This weekend especially, I did think about going over to school and working in the greenhouse and doing some deadheading and stuff because I thought, I'd miss this. I haven't done anything, it's just, you know, so miserable outside and, you know, my plants at home, you know, the ones in the windowsill, they're not doing maybe as much as the ones in the greenhouse. And I almost just, you know, got in the truck and drove over to school. 00:31:56 Sumer Beatty: You just needed that. Yeah. 00:31:57 Carl Bower: I didn't. I didn't. Something else come up. I saw something shiny and I didn't. But it was, it was like, Oh, I'm, I'm kind of, I need that. 00:32:06 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. Is there anything that you can think of that inspires you? 00:32:10 Carl Bower: You know, I think going back to what I said about inspiring others, you know, getting people to say, Oh, I never, I never thought about doing that. And when they say, I guess I really get a kick out of that, you know, Oh, I never thought about doing that. And, well, well, you know, try, try it out. 00:32:26 Sumer Beatty: A unique twist on something like the Coleus. 00:32:28 Carl Bower: Yeah. That's, you know, and just, you know, being able to change. You know, change what you see, you know, in the landscape. I, I, I like that. I like that a lot. I mean, that, that creativity is fun, but I think it's when people say, I never, I never thought about that. 00:32:44 Sumer Beatty: I was just curious about your landscape. Are you doing the same thing year after year or do you, do you change it up? 00:32:49 Carl Bower: Oh, I change it up all the time. 00:32:50 Sumer Beatty: Okay. Sorry. That was an offensive question. 00:32:52 Carlos Ramos: I think it is, it's part of those that really love to garden that they do that. My wife, she constantly is changing things. I'm like, will this be the year that things actually stay the same? No, it will, it will never be. 00:33:04 Sumer Beatty: Oh, I love the idea of like, okay, this works here. We know this does well here. This thrives here. Like I always go with the potato vine in the front and the petunias behind it because I know it's going to fill the space and I can check that off and do something I like. 00:33:17 Carlos Ramos: But there will be one thing that doesn't quite work the where, where it's at. So then that has to move over to here. Well, then that's in the place of something else. Well, that'll work better with there. And while that plant won't like this plant, but this one will like this one. Next thing you know, it's like, okay, we've moved everything at least three times. 00:33:34 Carl Bower: Well, you know, I, there's so many plants I get as very small plants and I like to watch them grow and then. as it gets bigger I gotta move em, and you know, I move em someplace in the yard, or I give em away, or I take em to school, or you know, whatever. But I gotta chance to watch it grow, and you know, the front landscape is kind of It's kind of been the same for a while, but there for, for many years, it would change every year. And my wife, she does the, the Christmas lights. And, you know, she'd have them all set. And then, you know, she'd say, she'd write on the box, Oh, this is around this, you know, plant. And then next year said, that plant's not there. What happened to that plant? Oh, I moved that. Oh, I had that planned for that plant. Oh, it's gone. And so, yeah, I mean, God bless her. She, she, she lets me do, she lets me to kind of do whatever I want, you know, in the garden. And I ask her and she goes, that's, that's your thing. That's, you know, when we moved into the house, she said, you know, you can have the, you know, the outside, the garage and the basement. I said, that's all I need. So I've taken that to, to the, you know, to the ends of the. I put a lot of stuff in there. And, yeah, so that's, Now it changes. And you know, even like my vegetable garden, you know, I, I grow so few vegetables anymore because that becomes the, you know, the space for all my seedlings, you know? And so I, you know, I start to grow something for my cutting. It's like, okay, well I need to, I need to move it in the garden. Oh, I'll put it, I'll put it over there because there's room. And then it becomes time to, you know, to plant vegetables. Oh, I don't have any room for vegetables. 00:35:02 Sumer Beatty: I'm starting to think our new business idea is to sell tickets, sell admission to Carl's house. 00:35:09 Carlos Ramos: It's tough, it's tough with the seedling thing too, because we, you know, we put this whole little thing in our basement that, you know, we've got, I think any, any electrician would go and look at it and say, why do you have three extension cords of all of these lights plugged into it? I'm like, well, you know, it'll take like two watts, but anyway, so we got this whole big rack and so we'll start all these seedlings, but then it's like, but these seedlings grow and it, you know, like the first week or two, you're like, okay, yeah, it's fine. But then week three comes and then it's like, wait a minute, you can't, you can't catch up with these things. So, you know, normally we would have started things by now. We haven't, we haven't even started, our seedlings because we really don't know what we're going to do with the spring. But how do you deal with that? How do you, you know, if you're starting your seed, do you start them inside? 00:35:52 Carl Bower: No, no. Well, a couple of things. I'm, I'm blessed with the, a friend that grows. All kinds of stuff and just gives it away. 00:36:01 Sumer Beatty: Oh. 00:36:02 Carl Bower: You know, she, she uses what she uses for her garden, but everything else is just, you know, she just gives it away. And, and so that's kind of another story. But the, the other thing is I, I do buy a lot of seeds, and I find that the, the art of. Buying seeds and the, and the, and the art of, and the hobby of growing seeds are two totally So I buy a lot of seeds with all great intentions. I want to grow these. And then they, you know, they just sit there. So. 00:36:32 Carlos Ramos: We start everything, you know, it got started with, heirloom tomatoes. Oh my gosh, there's just so many. And we're just barely scratching the surface with them. We've grown this, this one at Abe Lincoln. It's just this monster heirloom tomato that apparently Abe Lincoln himself had grown. oh my God, you cannot go back to store bought. I mean, I even have a problem going to like roadside stands because these are just not as good as these other tomatoes. 00:37:00 Carl Bower: Well, some of those. Like heirloom tomatoes, they're open pollinated, which means you can grow and seed and you know, and I did a couple years ago I bought some, some seeds 'cause I tried this one old fashioned tomato. Oh, this is terrific. And I tried it and, and I grew it. And and it was terrific. But now it pops up in my garden. Everywhere, . 00:37:17 Sumer Beatty: Wow. 00:37:18 Carl Bower: So I, I don't have to, you know, to, to grow from seed. but, you know, I have things like figs in my garden, that, you know, that not a lot of people have. And, and, well, I have a asparagus, and I mean, not that that's, an odd plant, but when I, I planted that and I planted that in an area that normally would plant like, you know, tomatoes and cucumbers and things like that. But I planted that and, and I had people say, well, that takes a long time to grow. And I remember saying, well, where am I going? 00:37:44 Sumer Beatty: That's what I was, if we, I love asparagus too, and I've always, that was my reasoning for never doing it. But gosh, how many years has it been? I could have it by now. 00:37:53 Carlos Ramos: Oh yeah. 00:37:54 Carl Bower: Yeah. 00:37:54 Carlos Ramos: But you just grew it in standard soil. I thought that needed like a real sandy soil. 00:37:59 Carl Bower: Oh, I just grow it in regular soil. Oh. Yeah. Okay. But yeah, but that's one of those things, you know, that I hear a lot of people say, oh, that takes a long time. Or even like oak trees, oh, plant oaks, it takes a long time to grow. Okay. Where are you? You know, where are you going? 00:38:10 Sumer Beatty: Have you seen my house? I'm not, not going anywhere. Right, exactly. 00:38:13 Carl Bower: You're like, exactly. And you know, and, and that's, and that's tough. You know, when I tell that to high school kids, I say, okay, you know, 10 years ago, where were you? And they go, wow, I was eight years old. or, you know, 10 years old. Okay, well that's, you know, there's a big difference. But where I was 10 years ago and where I probably will be 10 years from now, there's not a lot of difference. You know, it's okay. Well, you know, my kids were 10 years younger, but I was in the same house, the same job. I said, you know, the older you get, you know, the more stable you get. You know, and I understand if you're only going to be in the house for, you know, five years, not going crazy and, you know, planning some of the things that do take many years to harvest and because you're not going to reap those benefits, but maybe... 00:38:50 Sumer Beatty: The cost is so low too. Yeah. 00:38:52 Carlos Ramos: Yeah. The cost is low-ish, and yeah, the next owner would really appreciate that if you've kind of got it all set up. 00:38:58 Sumer Beatty: Somebody left me a bunch of rhubarb that I. Okay Oh. And ever since I did that, I had so many people tell me how much they love rhubarb! Oh my gosh. Yeah. So much of it And it didn't die easy. It was a hard battle. Had it had it 00:39:11 Carlos Ramos: Do you have a hint of any 00:39:12 Sumer Beatty: left? No, gosh no. I was I did so well. It's gone. 00:39:17 Carlos Ramos: Oh my gosh. Yeah, June/July comes along like we want rhubarb strawberry pie. 00:39:20 Sumer Beatty: It's gross. It's so gross. It's stringy. It's not good. 00:39:24 Carlos Ramos: Oh. You haven't had it done right. 00:39:25 Sumer Beatty: It doesn't matter. It's gone. 00:39:27 Carlos Ramos: Next time I, next time I have rhubarb, I will bring in some and I'll change my mind about it. 00:39:31 Carl Bower: You're like, if I had to put that much sugar on a fruit or a vegetable. 00:39:35 Carlos Ramos: It does take a little bit of sugar. 00:39:36 Carl Bower: Yeah. It's like grapefruit. 00:39:38 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. Well, it's not the same thing. You've deli... uhhh 00:39:43 Carlos Ramos: So what, Carl, what is your favorite plant? 00:39:46 Carl Bower: Oh, oh, geez. yeah, it's, oh, what, which is my favorite son? you know, it really, it's, I think it's the plants that have, that I have a history with. So, you know, plants that, that I know somebody gave me, you know, I, I look at my garden and I'll say, Oh, I got that from so and so, I got that from so and so. And actually during COVID, I, I inventoried everything. And I put it on a spreadsheet and was like, where'd I get it from? And it's like, oh God, I got all these plants from this other teacher or you know, you know, from, you know, like for 12 minutes, my mentor, you know, he's giving me all these plants or from here or there and, and you go to a trade show and I mean, I look at things in my garden now that are 15 feet tall and I got at a trade show that was like, you know, six inches. And somebody said, here, you got to try this out. You like, you really liked this. This is kind of something different. So. You know, things that have a history in that respect, you know, they're kind of my favorite and, or if it's something that I grew from seed or from recutting and I got the history with that's, you know, but I, I like conifers. I, I like, I'm really gotten the native plants like crazy. I like perennials. 00:40:55 Sumer Beatty: Native plants. What do you mean? 00:40:57 Carl Bower: So you know, plants that are native to our area. You know, that's gotten to be. And, and I think now if I did my garden, it'd probably be all native plants. But, you know, years ago it was like, hey, you know, whatever's, whatever's out there, the neatest thing and are all, you know, exotics. And, you know, you know, we're finding out now that, you know, they're causing all kinds of problems and being, you know, terribly evasive. And, and, you know, there are some things that. several years ago, I got rid of because I didn't want to be part of that problem. You know, the pears and the barberries. I mean I had some different barberries, the ones you didn't see everywhere. And it hurt at first, like, I'm digging this up. You know, it's a nice looking plant. And like, you know, people said, why aren't Aaron, why are you digging that out? It's like, wow, this is Part of the problem, you know, this is, this is what's spreading all over the place, you know, and now, you know, now the plants banned, you know, 00:41:48 Carlos Ramos: I was gonna say they're banned, right? 00:41:49 Carl Bower: Yeah, 00:41:49 Sumer Beatty: I mean, sorry, 00:41:50 Carl Bower: I think it's next year. 00:41:51 Sumer Beatty: Barberries are banned? 00:41:52 Carl Bower: Yeah. 00:41:53 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, you can't, you can't buy them. 00:41:54 Carl Bower: Yeah, I think it's starting. 00:41:55 Carlos Ramos: You can't sell them. 00:41:56 Carl Bower: Starting next year, I think. There are still a few cultivars, but that'll be, 00:42:01 Sumer Beatty: You're allowed to have them at your house though. Just asking for a friend. 00:42:06 Carl Bower: We won't come to your house. 00:42:06 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, my whole back line is like all barberries. It's like, wait a minute. 00:42:11 Sumer Beatty: That was a mistake when I bought those. They looked so pretty, the lime green. And now they're out, they're just terrible for maintenance though, the jaggers and stuff. 00:42:19 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, I would be, you know, weeks away from doing work and I'm like, there's another thorn. 00:42:25 Sumer Beatty: They're nasty. 00:42:26 Carl Bower: So yeah, you know, I, I've tried to get rid of, tried to get rid of some of those and there's, and there's others. I mean, I still have a lot of non native plants, but they're not. any of the, you know, the invasive ones. 00:42:38 Carlos Ramos: Well, how do we deal with things like Japanese knotweed, which are just prolific on our waterways? 00:42:43 Carl Bower: Oh, yeah, it's tough. It's not an easy solution. You know, it's gotten so out of hand that, you know, trying to remedy it now is just, it's very, very difficult. You know, it's telling people what it is, letting them, you know, know what it is. And, and, you know, there are some ways to get rid of it, but it's not an easy thing to do. and, So, but the, you know, the biggest thing is, you know, education, you know, letting people know that this isn't a, cause, cause when that blooms in the summer, oh my gosh, that's so pretty. You know, yeah, it's pretty, but, you know, it's. 00:43:17 Carlos Ramos: But it's spreading. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's. doing when it looks like that. 00:43:21 Carl Bower: Yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's pretty, but it's not, you know, it's not good. 00:43:25 Carlos Ramos: Do you see any other plant coming up in there. 00:43:28 Carl Bower: Yeah. 00:43:28 Carlos Ramos: No, not at all. Yeah. Maybe some bamboo, which is also 00:43:31 Carl Bower: a problem. Yeah. Problematic. I remember I did, my sister asked me for the girl scouts years ago to do a, I think on native plants, and I said, oh yeah, I'd be happy to. And and I went to this, to the, to their camp, and I'm out in the woods and I'm looking and I'm looking and I said, I can't do this because there's no native plants. I mean, there's. Big oak trees you can point to, but you know, these girls are like, Oh yeah, look up there. They're lost. And I said, you know, it turned into a, you know, an invasive talk. And I said, you know, these are the plants that you got to, you know, understand are out there that, yeah, they might look pretty, but you need to, you want to try to get rid of these in the, in the landscape because they're just taken over. I said, I wanted to show you, you know, maples and oaks and all these, you know, native, you know, plants, but I said, there's none, there's none here. And I said, you know, as soon as these big ones die, what do you think? Do you think another one's going to pop up? And they go, no, if there's not any small ones, I said, no, it's just going to get taken over by knotweed and barberry, honeysuckle and, and all this other stuff. And so, you know, that, that. When I was doing that talk for them, that kind of really hit me that, oh man, we need to make a, we need to make a change, you know, it's just, it's, it's out of control. 00:44:40 Carlos Ramos: Well, when you have a solution, we'll be happy to share it. 00:44:43 Sumer Beatty: Work on that for next week. It'll be on the app. Yeah, it'll be on the app. 00:44:48 Carl Bower: It won't be cheap. 00:44:51 Sumer Beatty: So wrapping things up, is there any parting advice you might have, or maybe you could tell a success story of a student that you're really proud of that's out there in the field working and doing a great job. 00:45:03 Carl Bower: There are so many students out there that are just, like you said, that one student that's killing it and he graduated in 2019 and he's built this big shop and has like 10 employees and, and, you know, he, he's a hard worker and doing some, you know, some great. Great work. You know, there's, there's a bunch of them like that out there that are, are doing some really neat things. And then there's others that come back and, and they're, you know, they're, you can tell they just love what they do. I mean, I, I think, you know, horticulture is, is as much Maybe more of a vocation than a profession. I mean, it's kind of a calling. I mean, it's, you know, you know, people are drawn to this and, you know, there's a few of them. I know there's a, there's a husband and wife and we've had quite a few students that have, you know, that are, that have gotten married after, you know, after. After they graduated, and there's one that she, she, she sells trees, another one, her husband's an arborist, and they're down in Maryland, he works for this awesome museum called, Glenstone, he's the arborist on, you know, on staff, and she's selling trees at this really kind of, I don't want to say trendy nursery, but this, you know, this nursery that does a lot of neat things. I get the email from her every month from availability and you can just hear it in her you know in her email that she loves what she does and so yeah that's that's really neat to you know to see these people just living life and just you know being happy being successful and and, you know, and loving what they, loving what they do. 00:46:33 Carlos Ramos: Cultivating plants, cultivating lives, cultivating partnerships. 00:46:37 Carl Bower: Yeah. 00:46:37 Carlos Ramos: You got it all going. 00:46:39 Carl Bower: There was, there was a, I think it was the Scotts Company. It was years ago. I remember, if you remember, the Victory Garden, it was on PBS, and they were a sponsor of the Victory Garden, and then the, end of the show or the beginning of the show when they're saying, these are our sponsors. And, and they had a, a, a, a slogan that says, you know, we, you know, our, our business is to grow flowers, brighter, grass greener, and trees, you know, bigger, something like that. They said, you know, if you can think of a better industry, you know, we would like to know about it. And I was like, that just hit me. I was like, yeah, that's, that's right. I mean, that's kind of what we do and, you know, to, you know, to be able to do that and to be able to share that, you know, that's, that's kinda what inspires me. 00:47:18 Sumer Beatty: Can't think of a better way to say goodbye. Thank you so much for being with us. This was a lot of fun. This was good. Now we just need to get you listening to podcasts. 00:47:26 Carl Bower: All right. 00:47:27 Sumer Beatty: All right. 00:47:28 Carlos Ramos: Thank you, Carl. 00:47:28 Carl Bower: All right. guys. Have a good day. 00:47:33 Sumer Beatty: Thanks for hanging out with us today. 00:47:34 Carlos Ramos: Don't forget to rate review and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. 00:47:39 Sumer Beatty: Check out our show notes for bookmarks to your favorite sections and links to resources that we mentioned in today's episode. 00:47:45 Carlos Ramos: You can also find past episodes and see what's on deck for upcoming ones at pct.edu/podcast. 00:47:52 Sumer Beatty: And of course, we are open to your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions, so send those over at podcast@pct.edu. 00:48:00 Carlos Ramos: It's been real. 00:48:02 Sumer Beatty: Catch you next time.