Charles Niedermyer II: Zest for Life

00:00:00 Sumer Beatty: Welcome to Tomorrow Makers, where we explore how we learn, live, work, and play now and in the future. I'm Sumer Beatty. 00:00:10 Carlos Ramos: And I'm Carlos Ramos. Such a fantastic guest today. 00:00:15 Sumer Beatty: We are, we, I keep saying this, but we're so, so lucky. Oh my goodness. We're here with Charles Niedermeyer, instructor in the baking and pastry arts here at Penn College. Oh my goodness. It's like a, no pun intended, but maybe because we're talking about baking and culinary, but like just the levels of, of his personality and his interests. And it's just like an onion. We keep finding more and more and more. And we're like, ah, we have to stop this conversation somewhere. But it's just the, you know, there's so much more to talk about with him. He, he was great. Yeah. 00:00:47 Carlos Ramos: And maybe onions, not the right metaphor here. 00:00:50 Sumer Beatty: Maybe you have something else. 00:00:51 Carlos Ramos: Maybe it's that phyllo pastry. 00:00:53 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. Okay. There we go. Oh my goodness. I've seen them make those, croissants in class and no wonder they're so good. So much butter, so many layers, lots to talk about with this one. 00:01:05 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, we had like the, we, we, we started talking like right, right away. We were still setting up some things. Normally we're like. We're really good. We got it all set up. I can just hit record when we're ready to go. And you and Charles started talking. I'm like, Oh my gosh, we need to get all this. 00:01:20 Sumer Beatty: Are we recording this? He's talking about skateboarding and all kinds of fun things. Why he's wearing makeup to campus if you see it. Oh my goodness. 00:01:27 Carlos Ramos: Yeah. So we're going to, we're going to. Save that. We won't talk about a whole lot, but there's a little bit of it in this episode. We don't get near in the depth that we had in that 10 minutes before we started actually rolling. So we will have Chef Charles back for a part two, but do enjoy this first 45 minutes with Charles Niedermeyer. 00:01:51 Sumer Beatty: Welcome. We're here today with Chef Charles Niedermeyer. We're so excited to have you today. 00:01:58 Charles Niedermyer: I'm excited to be here. I love this headphone, this big microphone. It feels very professional. Yeah, that's what we're going for. Very professional. 00:02:05 Carlos Ramos: Now, we missed like probably what would be the five to ten best minutes of this podcast in the pre roll. I, I captured a little bit of it. I'm going to see what I can, can get back, but I, I'm, we're going to bring some questions into this. 00:02:21 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah, we could get into that again. We didn't, we just scratched, we didn't even scratch the surface on that, on those topics. 00:02:27 Sumer Beatty: Okay. And as a warning, he says he can out talk Dr. Craig Miller. So if you listen to that podcast, we're just going to see what happens here. 00:02:34 Carlos Ramos: Okay. That's episode two. 00:02:36 Charles Niedermyer: I'm going for quality, not quantity. I'd like, I'd like to have better stories than Dr. Miller. That's the goal. 00:02:41 Sumer Beatty: Dr. Miller, are you listening? All right. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. So let's start at the top. we know you're into baking and pastry arts. How did you choose that as a career path? 00:02:57 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah, that's definitely my passion, baking. it really started at home, you know. I was always cooking with my mom, and I really enjoyed cooking. She was the head chef at home, and it was simple stuff, you know, just french fries and fish sticks. But she had her signature items. baked chicken on Sunday, meatloaf, stuffed shells. So I really enjoyed that and she loved when I was in the kitchen because I was meticulous and I like to clean. I like everything neat and tidy. So, I was a, I was a hard worker and we had fun and then I kind of gravitated into baking and that was really neat. And then I was about 12 years old we had like a cookie sale at my parents church. And the woman in charge of it was actually a professional chef. She had worked as an executive chef in Hawaii for a long time. And so when we did this cookie sale, like, it was like a holiday thing. It was like 16 different, beautiful, little, petit four style. And I was like, wow, this is really fun. Like, I didn't know baking could be so meticulous and so beautiful, and that kind of really kicked off my interest, that's very memorable for me, and I started baking at home, you know, more, and my first cake, I actually went out on Mother's Day and I bought like a box of HoHos. Little Debbie Swiss Rolls, and then I bought a little canister of frosting and I stacked them up into a rectangle and iced it. Like, I think I was like, like 12 years old or 13 years old. It was right after that. I was in like sixth or seventh grade. And then it just went from there, you know, and I, had an opportunity at 16 to take a job in a bakery. And I said, absolutely. I actually interviewed at a grocery store and they offered me a couple positions and I was like, they said, well, we also need a dishwasher in the bakery. And I was like, oh, that sounds amazing. So I, there was a little bit of, you know, fate that I fell into that. And, I was there for about three years. And by the time I left, I could pretty much do everything. You know, I'd get in, get all my dishes done, and then I'd go hang out with the baker and watch them. And he'd be like, here, do this. So I'd do that. And then the next day I'd get all my dishes done and I'd go over and he'd be like, all right, do that. So I'd do this, then I'd do that, you know, 00:05:12 Sumer Beatty: Right. 00:05:12 Charles Niedermyer: And I just kind of progressed to the point that they were putting me on the schedule as the baker to kind of, do production. And, I ended up deciding, I'm like, I want to be a chef. I definitely want to be a chef. And I was the most unprepared college student ever. So I have great mercy on my students. I, I just was like, I'm going to be a chef. I'm going to go to Penn College. And I didn't look at the programs. I never even took a tour. And I, and I, went to the registrar's office to enroll. Cause back in those days, you like, I think you enrolled in person, right? I came here. I was like, I want to be a chef. I want to be in the program. culinary arts program, we have a baking and pastry arts program, and my response literally was, I can go to school for baking? And I was like, put me in that program. And I literally signed up for a program I knew nothing about, facilities I'd never toured, and that worked out. 00:06:14 Sumer Beatty: Oh boy, it did, right? 00:06:16 Charles Niedermyer: I mean, I, I've just been, just obsessed and in love with baking ever since. And you know, Penn College was really the, the launching point for my professional career. I remember like, it was the first time I ever ate an anchovy, you know, like everything was like so new and exciting because I'd worked in a professional bakery, but there was, you know, I hadn't been around chefs and hadn't been in like a fine dining restaurant, even though I had been making pizzas in a pizza shop and I was a wait, a server for a banquet kitchen. So I was getting experience. I was always a hard worker. I had a couple of jobs for like a long time. it really exposed me to what the industry could be. And we had a visiting chef. with, the Ritz Carlton and these Ritz Carlton chefs came in, three of them, and they were just, they were, they had an aura about them, man. They were glowing. I was like, whatever they needed, I was there. Spatula, I had three in my back pocket. Spoon, chef, I'm going to find every spoon we have. Whatever you need. Yes, chef. And at that moment, I decided that I wanted to work for the Ritz Carlton Hotel Company and be a pastry chef. And there was this magazine called Pastry Art and Design, and that was the pastry magazine. I was like, I'm going to be in that magazine. I'm going to do it. And that just set me on, on fire. And, I ended up working at the Ritz and training at three properties and coming back and doing fine dining. And it was, it was just, It was great, you know, getting my hands dirty and really cutting my teeth out there. And, and then the opportunity came to come back and teach at Penn College. And it just kind of blew me away because I was like, I never really thought about teaching. Like that wasn't a career option. I was just going to be the best pastry chef I could be. But the more I thought about it, I loved mentoring the young cooks and the new cooks. I love getting somebody in there. and getting them up and running and getting them confident and, and helping them learn their craft. So I knew I had to go for it because I was like, if, if I hate it, I can leave and I can find a restaurant, a hotel. I can find another pastry chef gig. But these, these are real opportunities. And, that was, 18 and a half years ago. So I've been. teaching here for a while now. It's hard to believe, but yeah. 00:08:39 Sumer Beatty: Wow. 00:08:40 Charles Niedermyer: That's kind of a 00:08:41 Sumer Beatty: Full circle back to Penn College. Yeah. So do you still, are you still involved in, in industry in some ways? I'm assuming that's not completely by the wayside. You're still. 00:08:53 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah, no, definitely. In fact, I think honestly, and no, disrespect to anybody on campus, but if I was only teaching, I think I would be bored. Like, and I don't mean that in a negative way. I think you can really develop and you never, your teaching never stops evolving or else it'll get stale. So you're always constantly revising and rewriting and trying to make your lessons better. But for me, I really need It's my own classroom where I'm being tested and pushed. And so a long time ago after I really got my teaching, I don't want to say figured out because I'm still trying to figure it out. But, you know, after I got better at teaching and I had more time, I started to kind of branch out and like I helped my buddy launch a pastry line in his bakery. He has an artisan bread bakery. And I did that for like a bunch of summers. And then I worked with my best friend on his taco truck. So I helped him launch that business and I was like his guacamole man and his drink guy. But, but he was so obsessed with Mexican cuisine. I was like learning about all these chilies and we're making our own masa. It was just amazing. So I've always been kind of very involved outside of work with what's happening in the industry. And then I really started getting involved with professional trade associations. So in the baking and culinary programs, we get to do a lot of really exciting stuff outside of class with the Retail Confectioners International, the Retail Confectioners Association, the Bread Bakers Guild of America. So I have a pretty robust schedule of teaching and traveling and presenting. Constantly. So, and it, it makes my teaching better. My teaching makes my you know, my trade work better, if you will, my industry work. So it's, I think it's, it's really a good yin and yang. 00:10:48 Sumer Beatty: And it's artistic too. And I feel like if you're an artist or you're a maker, we often say like you feel called to that art or to make something or to create, and I almost feel like calling it a trade sort of. It makes it not so much, you know what I mean? But I think that's the artistic side of you. You need to flex that side. 00:11:07 Charles Niedermyer: Exactly. Like, the best way I could put it was, for me, it's, it's very difficult sometimes to sit back and watch everybody make 50 baguettes, right? I want to shape 50 baguettes myself, start to finish. I want to keep my edge, you know? Right. In fact, I want it sharper, you know? I'm continuing to push myself, so. That's where I really, like you say, get to hone my craft and, you know, keep myself in good professional shape, if you will, so. 00:11:40 Sumer Beatty: I'm curious about the professional, like the formal education aspect. You said you were mentored a little bit by, the chef in the bakery where you worked. What is, to somebody who might be thinking, well I can cook, I can just, I can cook, why do I need to go to school? You know, you're smiling, I'm sure you have a lot to say about this. What, what is the benefit to that formal education? 00:12:02 Charles Niedermyer: That's a great question, and it does start at home. You know, I always say. Cook and bake at home. If you don't like doing it there, I don't think it's going to work out professionally, but working professionally is very different. You know, a dinner for six versus a dinner for sixty or six hundred or six thousand, you know, like we have the opportunity to do with our students at the Derby, you know. And you can teach yourself a lot. We all know that, you know, I taught myself how to pull the carburetor off my snowblower a week ago because I wanted that thing running, but it, it took me a long time with a lot of YouTube videos and jumping around and this and that. But if, if somebody would have just sat me down and said, Hey, we're going to pull the carburetor apart. It would have been done, it probably would have been perfect. And baking and culinary are just like that, you know, it's such a craft. It, it, and I don't think trade is, is a bad word or, you know, it's, it's craftsmanship and craftswomanship. And, and that's something that has been handed down from generation to generation. And there is so many, tricks of the trade, nuances. things that you learn when you master your craft, which takes years of experience, that somebody's going to instill that into you in a day in a lesson. You're not going to capture it all, but you're going to progress so quickly. And a lot of our students, what happens is they are work ready. They understand how professional bakery operates. They've worked with the tools. They can read formulas. They know baker's percent in math and, and it just gives them a serious leg up and doors to start flying open. You know, we're not talking entry level now, we're talking mid management and, and some of the students actually leave school and they're ready to launch small businesses if you will. Food trucks, cake shops, farmer's markets, operations and things like that. 00:14:02 Sumer Beatty: And you mentioned the Kentucky Derby, do you want to talk a little bit about that? 00:14:05 Charles Niedermyer: Man, we got there already, the Kentucky Derby. We have to talk about it. The 150th Kentucky Derby this year. 00:14:11 Sumer Beatty: Wow. 00:14:12 Charles Niedermyer: It's the longest running sports. event in North America. And Penn College has been involved for like 30 years. And we have this long tradition of taking students down there and we don't just show up. We have a huge impact. So this year will be my 15th Derby. So I keep threatening them it's going to be my last one. 15 Derbys, 150, right? Why would I go any further? It's just a let down. 00:14:36 Sumer Beatty: You can't let it go. You're not going to stop. 00:14:38 Charles Niedermyer: No, it's, it's an amazing experience where the students. Actually, I'll tell you the first time I went, I went with one of my old mentors, Chef Paul, who I absolutely love and adore and taught me so much about teaching and being a chef. And I probably asked him about 2,000 questions. And this is from me having done, you know, banquets of 5,000 at the Ritz and plated, you know, 1,400 dinners, like 1,400 guests. And at one point he's like, Charles, you're just going to have to wait and see, because I was just like peppering him because I was just so like excited and enamored. And that was my first Derby. And the students, it's the same experience. Like they're just really, man, they're nervous, they're excited, they don't know what to expect. And I know I'm explaining it and pictures are great, but it's not until you get there and you feel it. And you're in it, you've got like potato salad up to your armpits, you're like stirring it and not really, but that didn't sound really appetizing, but it's, it's just kind of like a life changing experience. It's a bucket list. event for anybody to attend, but to be there and work it and be there all week and see the, the food and the fashion and the, the pageantry and just all of it, there's so much wonderful, you know, American tradition that happens at the Derby, but on the food side. In the kitchen, you really kind of learn like what you want to do maybe with your career. Like, like you walk away and you're like, I'm never doing that again. And that's a great lesson to learn. 00:16:15 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. 00:16:15 Charles Niedermyer: Like, I don't like this mega sports, mega event stuff, but we have other students who love it. They'll do four or five derbies as a student, and then they'll find their way into special events and what we call mega events. And, you know, they're like, man, I like this. These big numbers where you're feeding like 20,000 and 25,000, it's not 25, you know. 00:16:38 Sumer Beatty: Is there a downside to feeding so many people? I kept thinking about your little, what were you saying? They were so beautiful. 00:16:44 Charles Niedermyer: Those petit fours. 00:16:45 Sumer Beatty: Yes. So are you doing that for everyone? Or are those prepped in advance? Is it? 00:16:50 Charles Niedermyer: Well, and that's exactly what you learn. Like, how do you make great food in mass? You know, and that's its own art and craft. And so it's different than working in Lejeune and putting out 60 covers in a night. We'll, we'll put out lunches of 3,000, 6,000, you know, and then dinner will be 15,000. You learn the tricks of the trade. You do. And I've learned so much working with their chefs because they've been doing it, you know, longer than me. Especially those first few years. But now what's fun is, at 15 years, When you go down there, it's a big reunion. It's, it's hugs. I have this big Kentucky family that I love, but I start shaking hands like, Oh, welcome. It's my fourth Derby. And I'm like, it's my 14th Derby. And people's eyes get really big. I'm actually like turning into the old guy down there. There's just, you know, a lot of those things can kind of wear you down and grind you down. 00:17:40 Sumer Beatty: In a good way. 00:17:42 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, I keep going back. I love it. I'm looking forward to it. So we're going to take probably about 30 students down for the week. we'll be there in a hotel reporting the work every day at the track, just prepping, getting ready, organizing, for, you know, we'll probably feed about, be about 185,000 people on premise on Saturday for the day of the Kentucky Derby. And we do all the premium food service. So we'll feed about 35,000 of those guests. 00:18:14 Sumer Beatty: Wow. 00:18:15 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, all of it. It's going to be awesome. 00:18:21 Carlos Ramos: That day starts like really early and ends really late. 00:18:26 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah. Three, 3 a. m. 00:18:28 Sumer Beatty: Oh. 00:18:28 Charles Niedermyer: 4 a. m. Buses. Yeah. And, the whole week just builds. So I always tell the students, you're super excited, but this thing is a marathon, not a sprint. And I, I was the, the worst one the first year I got there, I moved the whole derby twice myself, you know, I was on it, like whatever, I, I, I, I went out, worked every student, every chef I'd met, it's just my personality, I'm just all in, and, I'm like, look, just slow down, grab, have somebody help you lift that. Get some help to drag that. 00:19:02 Sumer Beatty: That's a good experience though, because when you are in the, out in the workplace, you do have to think about that, right? If they are doing these big events, they need to learn, pace yourself. This is every day. 00:19:13 Charles Niedermyer: We work in tons, you know, everything shows up on pallets. So we'll, we'll do like 4,000 pounds of asparagus. We'll prep like 8,000 pounds of prime rib. It's, it's, I mean, there's some small delicate work for sure. We, we get involved in like these BEOs, banquet event orders for like the director's room, which might be like 12 super VIPs, you know, where we're making little quail deviled eggs with caviar and stuff, like a tray, a platter of that, but, there's a spot for everybody, you know, I encourage every student to go, they get nervous and I always say, anybody that's really nervous, I'm like, you're going to be in the main kitchen with me and you're going to be good because. The main kitchen is my domain. I rock that thing. So you just stick with me. Other students, they've been there a little bit more experience, or they've been there a couple times. I'll send them to far reaching acres of the track. I mean, the track is acres big. And there's like, you know, 20 kitchens, so. There's a spot for everybody. Yeah. Do you want to go? 00:20:14 Sumer Beatty: I don't, maybe. I have no experience. 00:20:18 Charles Niedermyer: They need everything down there. You know, it's not just cooking and baking. It's, you know. 00:20:22 Sumer Beatty: So you're a part of a huge crew. Are there other, learning institutions there that bring students? 00:20:28 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah, you know, it, I always, it's a real nod to Penn College that they drive by hundreds of culinary schools to come up to Penn College to recruit us. So, we have a huge impact there and, our students just shine. Everywhere we go, our students shine. But the, the event has grown to the point that they've added, a couple other culinary schools who, have been involved. so yeah, we have one of the biggest presences there and we've been there a long time. but it, it's just, there's a limit to what we can do. 00:21:02 Sumer Beatty: Sure. Yeah. It's a lot of people to feed. 00:21:04 Charles Niedermyer: Anybody who thinks horse racing is dead, oh my gosh, go to Kentucky. They just keep adding and growing and building. I mean, it's, it's pretty phenomenal. So it's every year there's more, more premium. So yeah, there's, there's a whole army that makes this thing happen. 00:21:21 Sumer Beatty: Awesome. So you, you like to tell stories. Do you have any good success stories of students that you're just, you're superstar students, somebody who came out of your program that was just lighting it up out there? 00:21:33 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah, gosh, we, we have so many great alumni. It's really exciting. You know, one of my, one of my former students, Alicia, I was just, I've been interacting with her a lot, Alicia Suma, she did her internship at Lynn Sandy's Bakery and, went on to be, like, the head decorator and one of the leads and managers and now she owns the business, she bought it. And she, I've been there and I visited with her and she's making it hers and she's making improvements and growing and it's just amazing to see these graduates accomplishing their goals and their dreams. And I remember when I was like, I'm teaching you how to make buttercream, right? 00:22:14 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. 00:22:15 Charles Niedermyer: And, she, she's, her and I stay in touch a lot. I have a lot of other graduates who reach out to me on a regular basis, like, Erin over at Lycoming College. You know, she's now like director of all their catering and operations. And, you know, she reaches out from time to time and she's on our advisory board now, you know what I mean? Like, and she contributes a lot, you know, and she used to be a student in the baking program and now she's an advisor. right? so it's pretty awesome. you know, we've got Angela down at Savona in Philadelphia. She's the pastry chef for the group. Like it's a restaurant group, so it's not just a restaurant. She's advising them on all the things they're doing, baking, you know, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty awesome, you know, and, and really, honestly, nowadays when I travel, and I do travel a lot, when I'm going to a city, I, I look up, I have, we have alum everywhere, right? So I'm like, who's, who's working in Pittsburgh? Who's working in Portland? Who's working in LA? And I always go find the grads. Oh, that's great. Yeah. It's so fun. Like we were just in Pittsburgh with a bunch of students and, we went out and found Darren Layre, who's, you know, was running an awesome restaurant for the Big Burrito Group. You know, they're like the Pittsburgh restauranteur, one of them. You know, the dozen restaurants. And he had his hand in over here and his hand in over there. And, you know, it's like you sit down, his name's on the menu. He starts sending food out. It's pretty cool. So yeah, it, and there's a lot of room in the program for students to kind of explore What is so fascinating about food and baking and culinary to them? Like, we have students, like I said, who are doing like food trucks and farmer's markets. We have other students who are into fine dining or, catering. So there, there's room to explore those niche markets because it is very much a niche industry. You know, there's a lot happening in, you know, dietary restrictions, specialty foods, online. We have, we have several grads who run completely like online pre-order bakeries. They don't have a main street bakery with all that overhead. They have, you know, a licensed certified kitchen and they're like selling out on Facebook marketplace or selling out on their website. And, and it's awesome. They write their own schedule. Like you take as many orders as they want. Right. And they turn it off when they want and they can be closed when they want and so on, because they don't have that main street foot traffic, which is a real challenge. So it's. Yeah, we, we've got so many great alumni. It's pretty, it's pretty fun to run into them and find them again. Yeah, actually, I just had a, who did I just run into? Oh, Dylan. Yeah, he, he got a big write up out in the Midwest and he's working at like a dude ranch, like a super high end experience and he's one of their chefs, pastry chefs. And, I remember when I took him to the Derby for the first time. So, yeah. 00:25:13 Sumer Beatty: We'll have to look him up. So, what inspires you? Is there anything, do you like to travel? Is it seeing the students work out there and as you're traveling or, or what, what? I know we talked earlier, you've got so many different interests, so you can take it however you want. It could be what inspires you to cook, what inspires you to skateboard, what inspires you to do, I forgot that other thing already. Muay Thai, yeah. 00:25:38 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah, before we got this camera rolling, we, we got into interesting hobbies and, and for me, I'm true, you know, I'm truly inspired all over the place by nature. You know, I work with the seasons when it comes to ingredients and so I get excited for winter because I know like eggnog is going to be on the shelf and people are ready for gingerbread and pomegranates are affordable and you know all the citrus, the blood oranges and things and that's going to change the menu and what we're working with and you know, the students continue to surprise me, delight me, inspire me. You know, I've had a couple students Along, you know, recently, I mean, it always happens, but they'll do something. And I'm just like, why have we never done this before? Like, you know what I mean? They'll, they'll do something. I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's so smart. And I, gosh, I'm struggling for an example, but it's, it's, it's, you know, it's usually something simple. It's not like revolutionary, but they just, they have this fresh approach. And so they'll do something in the lab and I'll be like. Who taught you to do that? I don't know. 00:26:48 Sumer Beatty: It's the benefit of teaching. 00:26:50 Charles Niedermyer: Brilliant. 00:26:50 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. 00:26:50 Charles Niedermyer: You're brilliant. We've been doing it wrong forever. So, you know, they're, they're inspiring. you know, I have a really strong network, so I'm lucky enough to have great conversations and meet with other pros. Like that's a big part of these trade shows is getting out there and hearing other's stories and seeing their work and being inspired. you know, I'm teaching at a national conference for the Bread Bakers Guild. Again, I've been teaching there for years and it's just so great to be immersed by all these other like bread heads and just people that can just go down these sourdough rabbit holes that are so deep and crazy and then they'll ask you questions like, you know. So, you know, what mil ratio are you, you know, how fine are you grinding down your rye and at what percent are you using it? And what do you find between 67 and, you know, 70 percent hydration, you know, are you seeing a big difference? And like, you can only have those conversations with them, you know, and so that's inspiring. 00:27:52 Sumer Beatty: Sounds like people who share your passion are inspiring. Be it a student, someone in industry, someone, yeah. 00:27:58 Charles Niedermyer: Well, not even that, you know, my, my dear old friend. One of my oldest friends, Ralph Colone, he's a Penn College alum. He's a, he's a woodsman. He's a saw guy. And he's in the forestry business. Now he's in the slab furniture business and he's an artist. And I'm, I'm hanging out with him at his shop and he's in super, he's, he's, he's got me inspired. Like I'm not doing enough. Yeah. 00:28:26 Sumer Beatty: There's always somebody. 00:28:27 Charles Niedermyer: Like, look at this guy, man, like he's came from the forestry program at Penn College and now he's just, he's building this empire. And he's a great guy. I love him. We get over, we hang out and we have so much fun. I brought my boys to see him and he, and he was, he was telling my one son about business. My other son walked over and interrupted him. He's like, can you shut the hell up. He's like, you listen up too. I got something to tell you guys. And he's, and he's, he's just full of energy. And, and so he was inspiring and he's not even a chef. 00:28:59 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. I mean, I should have clarified the whole passion thing. I almost think whatever industry, like whatever you're in, I think it's just, it's invigorating to feel someone else's passion for their area of expertise. So I think that's where you were going with that. 00:29:13 Charles Niedermyer: Yes. 00:29:13 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. 00:29:13 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah. Sorry. I swore. 00:29:15 Sumer Beatty: Oh, no. I don't know if that's the first time or not. 00:29:18 Carlos Ramos: We'll still keep our PG rating. 00:29:19 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, we're okay. 00:29:20 Charles Niedermyer: Good, good, good. Yeah, it's, and honestly, so my wife's in the chocolate business and she's brilliant. When I met her, I was like, I gotta marry this woman. She's way smarter than me. She understands the guests and customers and she can create market activations and launch products and that's also foreign to me. I can create whatever you want. As many as you want. You know, she has her expertise so like working with her on projects is super fun and I learn and I'm She pushes me to do better, so she's, she's a huge inspiration in my life. And then my kids, they're pretty inspiring. They have their own hobbies. So you asked, you mentioned that, you know, we were talking about skateboarding and that was like my son, he, you know, I skateboarded when I was in high school, a lot, like that was my thing and, I was pretty good, but not like great. And my son came home with a skateboard and I was like, where'd you get that? You know, whoa, let me see that. And, They knew I skateboarded, but I don't think they really expected much. So I was like, all right, let me see this thing. So I started pushing around on it and, it came back pretty quickly. And then all of a sudden I got really into skateboarding again. So I think I went through about 30 boards since COVID started. And, you know, because boards, they, they wear down, they die, they, they don't have the same pop or you break them, the crack chip, whatever, but, you know, he inspired me to, to get back on. It was kind of scary at first, to be honest, you know, I was like, is this a good idea? 00:31:04 Sumer Beatty: Right. There's that black eye that's around the corner that somebody is going to say, what happened? What's the story behind that? 00:31:10 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah. I'm like, I might just make a fool of myself here, break my arm or whatever. so, you know. They inspire me to get out there and do my best and be with them and spend time with them. And I think all of that makes a great professional. You know, I meet a lot of chefs who I think really burn out early, you know, because they don't have that balance. So I work hard, I play hard, right? We've all heard that, but it's kind of true. You know, if you work really hard and you're putting in a lot of hours and you're working on a class and you're traveling to Kentucky and stuff, well, you know what? You need to schedule a couple days when you get home to be with your family. to sleep in, to just relax and recoup and recover. And especially, you know, baking and culinary is physical work. You know, we're on our feet long, long days, and there's 50 pound bags of flour and 40 pound buckets. And so it's a physical job. And, I think it's important that you do have that balance and that time to do other things and explore other things. Because then when you come back to work, you're super creative. And I learned that a long time ago with the Ritz. They were like very adamant about We don't want you to burn out because this business Burns great talent out and they insisted that I took two days off a week unless it was like necessary or if it was like the last, you know, four weeks of the holiday season or whatever But they did not want me there every day. They wanted me to come back refreshed excited to be there and that that's inspiring you know, that's when you you know, you go skateboarding and you're looking at this maple tree and And you're thinking about maple syrup. I don't know. Oh, for sure. 00:32:52 Sumer Beatty: Carlos and I both enjoy spending time outside. We both trail run. I like to bike, ski, so I totally feel that. I think the best ideas come from when you're out on a run or you're in the woods and you see something and it just recharges you. 00:33:07 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big nature guy. I love camping. In fact, I don't know if I can tell another story, but you just reminded me, I, they used to call me Chef when we would go camping in high school, we'd go on these big trips, we'd go up in the woods for like four or five days, everybody brought their own cooler and they would be breaking out hamburgers and hot dogs and I'd be pulling out like salmon and fresh lime and stuff. And then so quickly it was like, what are you working on, Chef? You know, I'd start, I'd start dinner at like breakfast, man. I'd get, I'd get, I'd get the chili going. I'd render down the bacon and hit it with Some, you know, chilies and peppers and then, you know, in goes the seared meat or whatever. But 00:33:50 Sumer Beatty: You had the heaviest pack. 00:33:52 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah, I, oh yeah. Food's always been a big, big part of everything I do, you know? For sure. So, 00:34:00 Sumer Beatty: So you've been a chef for a while. 00:34:03 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah, that's an interesting title. You know, when do you, when do you become a chef? I always tell my students it's when you kind of go on salary, take the reins, everybody starts looking to you. You know, I think it's a, it's definitely a, a very respectful thing to say. So a lot of times when I travel, I just call everybody Chef, you know? I don't think everybody necessarily agrees with that, but I'm like, thank you so much, Chef. Like if. You know, I don't know, I don't know if they're a line cook or whatever. They got their chef jacket on and I'm like, Hey, can you help me find the salt? Oh, thanks, Chef. I appreciate it. but then there are other people, like I mentioned, I think my mentor, Chef Paul Mach, who taught here for a long time, master teacher, did the Derby long before I got there. I've never called a guy Paul in my life, and I just can't. I won't. I mean, I go out, I go to his house for dinner with his wife and I'm there with Michelle and I'm like, Chef, this is fantastic, or, hey Chef, can I grab another beer? You know what I mean? Like, I can't call him Paul. I just, I just respect him, too much, you know, and he's, he's earned that respect tenfold. So, yeah, I don't know how long I've been a chef, but people call me Chef. But everywhere I go, I just introduce myself as Charles. You know what I mean? Like, and I, we had the best baker, like one of the best bakers in the world, literally on campus. his name is Didier Rosada. If you look him up, he's, you know, been captain of the U.S. pastry team that won the gold medal in Paris, and he just has a phenomenal resume. And I met him in San Francisco, and I was his teaching assistant. And he was the most down to earth guy I'd ever met. And when I brought him to Penn College for a couple days, because I really just wanted him for myself, I was like, this guy is a genius. I want to spend more time making bread with him. And of course he came and he attended classes and taught classes, so it was, it was for everybody, but I was like, super jazzed myself. I'm like, so, so what would you like the students to call you? And he's like, Didier. You know, like. 00:36:10 Sumer Beatty: He didn't care about titles at all. 00:36:11 Charles Niedermyer: No, he's just a humble guy. And so I think, that's a good approach. 00:36:16 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. 00:36:16 Charles Niedermyer: You don't act like you're the smartest chef in the room. There's always a lot. a lot of talent in that room. So I'm happy to learn and be part of the, you know, the team. 00:36:27 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. 00:36:29 Charles Niedermyer: For me, experiences are everything. So we meet a lot of young people who are trying to figure out what do I want to do with my career? Do I want to be a baker? Do I want to be a chef? Do I want to enroll in the hospitality program? And when I catch them early enough, you know, and they have some time before taking that next. step in their formal education, I say, go get some experience, try something, you know, it, it starts at home, cooking and baking at home. If you really enjoy that, try to find a pro where you could maybe go shadow them for a couple of days, come to Penn College and shadow us, you know, all, all high school students are welcome to visit for a shadow day, you know, and, and attend class with us. Try to find that bakery where you can maybe work a little bit on Saturday, washing dishes like I did, you know, because you're going to be around professionals and, and see what a professional day looks like and what it entails. And, you know, baking professionally is very different than, you know, baking at home. So you got to take that plunge and then, and then you really kind of want to start to that point, explore, you know, what do the careers look like, you know, start looking on LinkedIn, looking at. job postings, what are the skill sets, you know, where are the jobs, what are they paying and so on. And really when you, when you get to that level, then you start to see that a formal education really is going to accelerate that. And then you start looking at institutions and so on. And I think there's definitely apprenticeship programs and the opportunity to learn on the job in the hospitality field as a chef or a baker or whatever, a cake decorator. But it's, it's usually just kind of more often than not get kind of plugged into that cog and You're doing that same thing day after day versus Penn College, the education is really, it's a nice overview of bread, pastries, plated desserts, candy and confectionary, artists, you know, artisan cake decorating, all that stuff. And so you, that's where you really explore like, oh, this is where I see myself in the industry. And that's, what's so fun. Because the students come in, they're like, Dime a dozen. I want to be a cake decorator. Because cakes are so popular. 00:38:44 Sumer Beatty: Oh, they're so pretty. Everybody can relate to that beautiful cake they see at a wedding or a birthday party. 00:38:49 Charles Niedermyer: Yeah, and all the TV shows and the cooking competitions and the TikTok videos and stuff. 00:38:55 Sumer Beatty: That's true, yeah. 00:38:55 Charles Niedermyer: There's a lot of cake decorating out there, but what's funny is that as they start to get into these other things, then you start They start to be like, wow, there's way more than what I thought this industry was. And it's not just cake decorating. They come in with ideas, but then they evolve and grow. And they get that, that associate's degree in baking and pastry, and they're really armed to go anywhere. Anybody's going to open their door. And then some of them, you know, about half of them stay and get their bachelor's in business because they see the value in acquiring those skills because business baking is so entrepreneurship, right? It's so business driven and, you know, that's, it's, it's just fun. It's my pleasure to be with them on that journey, you know, and help them achieve their goals. So that's why, that's, that's why I've been here 18 and a half years. I mean, I love all fun stuff and the traveling, but really what it comes down to is working with the students and really, training and arming the next generation of bakers. You know, everything was given to me very freely. You know, I, when the students enroll, they get 400 of my best formulas, day one. All that stuff was given to me. I'm like, here you go. And sometimes they're like, wow, wow, this is amazing. I'm like, there's no secret recipe. The secret is get up every day and do it exceptionally well. You figure that out, you're going to be a superstar, so. 00:40:18 Sumer Beatty: That's perfect. Thank you so much. 00:40:20 Charles Niedermyer: It's my pleasure. 00:40:20 Sumer Beatty: This was fun. 00:40:21 Charles Niedermyer: It is fun. I like this. I like these mics and this. 00:40:23 Sumer Beatty: We'll have to do it again. 00:40:25 Charles Niedermyer: Yes. Let's, let's come back. We've got, we've got more stories to tell. 00:40:32 Sumer Beatty: Thanks for hanging out with us today. 00:40:34 Carlos Ramos: Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. 00:40:38 Sumer Beatty: Check out our show notes for bookmarks to your favorite sections and links to resources that we mentioned in today's episode. 00:40:44 Carlos Ramos: You can also find past episodes and see what's on deck for upcoming ones at pct.edu/podcast. 00:40:51 Sumer Beatty: And of course we are open to your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions, so send those over at podcast@pct.edu. 00:41:00 Carlos Ramos: It's been real. 00:41:01 Sumer Beatty: Catch you next time.